Trinity Gill Nets in the News

[JSRedding]

I know there are a few strings about this topic. It appeared on the front page of the Redding Record Searchlight yesterday.

http://www.redding.com/news/2009/nov/08/are-gill-nets-decimating-klamath-and-trinity/

[big bug]

Nice to see an article that presents both sides. If you want to blame a decline in salmon and steelhead blame George Bush. We are still feeling the effects of the George Bush fish kill. If you review the records. The Yurok and Hoopa did not take fish commercially in 2003 and 2004.

www.earthjustice.org/.../COMPLETED-20Klam-20Fish-20Kill-20Factors.pdf

[WinterrunRon]

Thanks for posting the link to this article.

I don't understand how blame for such a complex issue could lie with a single person. I don't find this reasonable.

This, to me, is a telling statement however: "That is our river," Fletcher said. "Those are our fish. And we manage those fish in a responsible way."

Their fish? Their river? :-k

I can tell you this first hand: I've been up and down the Trinity River from Willow Creek to Steel Bridge no less than 8 days in the last few weeks. There are few fish in that section of river, unless they are all in the spots I don't fish or stop to view (which would be just my luck!). I don't know how many they expect to enter the river over and above the 28,000 they've already harvested. Seems to me that number may represent a large percentage of this year's total return. Then again, who knows? Maybe a million fish are on their way up river. :)

[big bug]

This, to me, is a telling statement however: "That is our river," Fletcher said. "Those are our fish. And we manage those fish in a responsible way."

Their fish? Their river?


Imagine if some explorers from a foreign country came up the Sac River and decided to make their home on the American River. They kill all your friends and family and decide to use the water to grow rice. They don't care about the fish, as they want to grow cattle. All the steelhead and salmon die and you are allowed to fish on Saturdays for carp. Fly fishing is not allowed, as it is not in their culture.

There are plenty of groups working on the Klamath and Trinity. If you want to make a difference put some time and/or money into the river.

[WinterrunRon]

Huh? :confused:

I didn't state I wanted to make a difference. I stated placing blame with one person, to me, isn't reasonable; and I have witnessed few fish in the river.

It's not "their" river, regardless of one man's claim it is.

[Darian]

big bug,.... Ya lost me on that one.... Is your point pro or con :?: :?:

Ron,.... I'm not questioning the validity of your observations while on the river but, as we all know, Native American reservations are sovereign nations. The portion of the river on the Reservation is subject to control by the Hoopa's/Yuroks and Karuks. The rights to the riparian habitat and an allocation of the returning fish was granted in the original Treaty with the feds and has been upheld in US District Court. :cool:

In order to harvest their allocation of the fish, the tribes have to exercise some form of management. I can't tell you what that methodology is but.... For all intents and purposes, it is their river and their fish. :neutral: Maybe it's time to rethink the system that results in current allocations but the Redding Newspaper article doesn't seem to support that point of view. :confused:

After reading his article in another thread, I'm not overly interested in Mike Aughney's point of view. He seems to be an alarmist to me (I'm being kind here). The newspaper article from redding is much more informative, objective and better written. :neutral:

[big bug]

It really is up to small groups to pursue their fishing rights. If you just say it is not their fish or their river then, you should be out there fighting for those fish. A great compromise would be have the Yuroks and Hoopa release the steelies from nets. They are mostly interested in the salmon anyways. The fly fishers want the steelies.

How is it not their river? The Native americans were fishing the Klamath Trinity system long before some guy decided it would be fun to catch fish with fur and feathers, bring them to shore and let them go.

If it were not for the new americans you would still be able to walk across the backs of salmon on the Yuba, American, Feather, Sacramento, Klamath and Trinity.

The native americans used fisheries biologists, treaty rights and tons of lawyers just to be able to fish in areas they fished for hundreds of years.

[WinterrunRon]

Darian,

I always appreciate the thought you put into your postings and replies and will readily admit I'm not well educated on this issue. You, and most everyone else, will be far more educated on this issue than I. Maybe I'm not understanding completely? I certainly didn't get Bug's point either. :confused:

As I understand it, in simplistic terms, there is a portion of land; a segment of river; an allocation of fish; dedicated to tribal interest. When you use words like "portion" and "allocation", these words, by definition, do not mean "whole".

My understanding is the whole river and all fish do not belong to any one entity. I don't think I'm the only one under this impression, but wouldn't want to speak for others. If wrong, I'd be happy to admit ingnorance on this issue.

[Darian]

OK big bug,.... Now I think I understand where you're coming from.... I don't have a lot of experience with gill nets but assume from the name, that fish caught are engaged in the gills. Doesn't that mean that safe release isn't probable.... :?: :confused:

[Darian]

Ron,.... I re-read my post and see that I probably confused everyone. I was referring to rights on the reservation. I need to follow my own advice and make clear explanations.... :nod:

You are correct. Nobody owns all of the fish or all of the river. The tribes do seem to be able to influence management of the entire river system, tho. For example, they were able to restore relatively stable flows to the Trinity River below the dam thru litigation. A second example is the system of allocations currently in place. :)

[WinterrunRon]

History is littered with who occupied the land first isn't the present owner. I'm certain, unless your an illegal alien, you'd claim the United States of America as your country... but you weren't here first (unless you are a Native American). I claim it as mine, and I wasn't. I guess I just don't get your argument. :confused: And just because I belive something doesn't belong to someone, doesn't me I need to, or should fight for it; I simply don't believe it belongs to whomever has it, the end.

I have a basic understanding of how gill nets work and have personally seen then in use on the Klamath. The fish is trapped by the gills as it attempts escape, and essentially drowns if given enough time in entrapment. Bug, are you saying steelhead are caught in these nets and what?, die and are simply discarded as a casualty of salmon netting? The picture in my mind is getting worse... :-(

[WinterrunRon]

Ron,.... I re-read my post and see that I probably confused everyone. I was referring to rights on the reservation. I need to follow my own advice and make clear explanations.... :nod:

You are correct. Nobody owns all of the fish or all of the river. The tribes do seem to be able to influence management of the entire river system, tho. For example, they were able to restore relatively stable flows to the Trinity River below the dam thru litigation. A second example is the system of allocations currently in place. :)

Got it! :nod:

[big bug]

Bug, are you saying steelhead are caught in these nets and what?, die and are simply discarded as a casualty of salmon netting? The picture in my mind is getting worse...

From the limited netting I have seen. The net is drifted through a pool. The net has buoys on top and lead weights on the bottom. One end of the net is placed near the rock edge of the pool and the other is pulled out the length of the net towards the center of the river. Each end of the net is pulled through the pool by a row boat. Any fish in the pool are snagged in the net. At this point the fish are removed from the net and bonked on the head the same as any commercial or sport fishing boat. Steelhead and salmon are kept at this time. The only steelie reg I have seen by the Yurok fishery management plan is that they are not allowed to sell wild steelies. They have a commercial allowance and regulations. Commercial netting is distinguished by a special colored buoy. Sustenance fishing is not monitored much. If a silver salmon is caught it is released. These are the only fish off limits. If the regs are changed maybe the steelies will be released as well.

I have read the Fly fishing Usa articles where nets are supposed to be strung all the way across the river. They sound like fixed nets which I have yet to see. If monitored, as they are supposed to be, the steelies could be released

[WinterrunRon]

Did you mean to say, "NOT supposed to be strung all across the river"? Because according to this article, if I read it correctly, nets are only to occupy 1/3 of the river, and not be strung all the way across (assuming 1/3 means 1/3 of the width of the river?). Just wanting clarification.

I have personally not seen nets drifted through pools. I have seen them stationary in the Klamath estuary and upriver, supported by styrofoam or plastic floats. Some, unattended for the duration of my presence (an hour or so). Can't imagine how a fish can survive that length of time being entrapped by a gill net and unable to move. :???:

On a side note, I have seen nets laid almost completely across the mouth of the Bogachiel River in WA, unattended. :(

[stevie steelhead]

I believe that the Native Americans do have a right to take fish from the river.
However, I also believe that the methods used by Tribal members in the past, were supposed to be used so that some escapement of salmon and steelhead happens.
I have personally seen gill nets stretched across the river totally blocking any fish from getting through. I have also been witness to tribal members pulling gill nets through the water with motor boats, going up and down the river. I have seen and been offered to buy fish from many Tribal members who sell their catch personally, and then tell me that they fish for the elders. I have seen 15-20 lb steelhead caught in the nets, dead the next day as they pull their nets out. Some Tribal members enjoy the large steelhead, but often discard the small er steelhead. Almost no fish survive the gill net onslaught when caught in the nets overnight.
There has to be some oversight and regulations that are enforceable, concerning the modern day Tribal member using gill nets.