Help a newbie out?

[Jay]

Hey guys, I think it is finally time that I start tying my own. I have been building my own big bass baits for a few years, and have locked up thousands of dollars in that, so i have been reluctant to do the same with fly tying.

But I am tired of always having to hunt down what I want, when I need it.

My real question is what is the best way to get into tying.

I guess what I mean is what should I get to start with, that will not be inadequate ( therefore a waste of money) 6 months down the road. All of the "Kits" I have seen seem to be pretty mickey mouse.

Unfortunately, cost is an issue. Work is pretty thin for a carpenter these days.

Thanks for the advice
Jay

[Ed Wahl]

You've opened a can of worms with that question Jay. What you "need" to start out is fairly simple. What fly's do you want to tie? Start out with those. Read some books, there's tons out there. Show up at the shop on Saturday, you can get a big jump start from David Lee. His rates are really quite reasonable.;-)

I've got a Thompson vise sitting here not doing anything, yours if you want it. Bought it at The Fly Hutch many moons ago, but still very usable.

Fly tying will be a mere pittance compared to what you've shelled out for those swimbaits, but the education you pick up once you start tying will be priceless.

And you can just break off those fly's stuck up in trees and just tie on another one.

It's Delta Striper time, are you with bass boat?

Ed

[Jgoding]

Probably the best way to get into tying is to look at what flies you are going to be tying and then buy materials for those flies only. Start with 2-3 flies then work your way up. Also, don't be afraid to substitute materials for each other.

Another alternative I would suggest is Ebay. Look for someone unloading all their stuff and you typically get a large assortment for a fraction of the price. That is if you want to tie a bunch of different stuff. Might not be the cheapest way to go initially but you can potentially get thousands of dollars worth the stuff for hundreds.

OH yeah, and what Ed says, if you really get into it....thousands won't cut it...

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

We think fly tying kits suck too.

Get some of the basic tools first.

There are good books and DVDs too.

Watching someone tie flies is the best way so you might come by the shop on October 10th and watch David and maybe others tie flies.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

We think fly tying kits suck too.

Get some of the basic tools first.

There are good books and DVDs too.

Watching someone tie flies is the best way so you might come by the shop on October 10th, next Satuirday, and watch David Lee and maybe others tie flies.

[David Lee]

Jay -

Mooch that vise from Ed , and come in and see me on October 10th .

D.~

[Bob Laskodi]

I disagree with Bill. Most fly tying kits do not suck. You get what you pay for, and most kits are under $100 for everything, including all equipment and some materials. You can't even buy a decent vise for under $50 so why should you expect a complete kit for the same price??? Cheap kits have their place, and are a way to break into tying for the fewest $$$ possible. After all, I learned to tye on them!!! If you stick with it, expect to replace/upgrade everything. My recommendation to learn to tye and pick up some used tying equipment on the cheap is to join your local fly club. Most offer beginner tying courses and most have members with tons of unused tying equipment they are looking to unload.

[robdog]

Another suggestion, is to join a fly fishing club. You will meet people w/ brilliant ideas, tools, tips, & possibly materials to get you into the right direction.

[Hairstacker]

I second the suggestion to take Ed up on his vise offer -- the vise is the most expensive single item needed to get started and the Thompson is a decent vise with a very good reputation.

Aside from the vise, you're going to need a few other tools:

Scissors -- don't economize here, get good ones ($10 - $20)
Bobbin -- get ceramic-tipped ones ($12 - $16)
Whip finisher -- Matarelli (aka Rotating) style ($7 or less)
Bodkin or make your own (less than $5)
Hackle pliers -- sand off rough edges around tips (less than $5)
Hair stacker -- get biggest one available.
Dubbing loop tool -- optional but you'll get one eventually (less than $5)

Aside from the vise, scissors and bobbin, you can buy the cheapest versions of the rest of the tools and not live to regret it.

Also, wouldn't hurt, regardless, to get a decent introductory book on fly tying. There are several outstanding volumes available so just speak up if you would like a few recommendations.

Last but definitely not least, if you can make it, I strongly recommend you sit down with David Lee and get an introduction to fly tying. David's an outstanding tyer, it's free, he can show you whatever you want to start out learning to tie, and he can help you pick out tools and materials to fit your budget.

[bcarson4374]

I think the most important thing to have in tying in a good vise.

Something what will hold a wide variety of hooks securely. I have many vises, not because I need them but because I honestly just like them, I take one out just because... Not that any one of them was bad. They all hold the hooks securely. BUT... I will say... The Renzetti lever cams are one of the fastest to grab a hook.

Here is the Renzetti Traveler.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r140/bcarson4374/P1020235.jpg

Great, portable vise that holds a very wide range of hooks. The jaw is tightened by lifting the lever at the back of jaw. It does not have any slots like the Dyna Kings have or the Regal vises have. Which makes it faster to seat a hook in this vise compared to the other two just mentioned.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r140/bcarson4374/P1020236.jpg

The base is on the small side of acceptable, but for what this vise was designed for its perfect. I mean it is called the Traveler, not the Big Ol Bench Vise.


Next vise is the Dyna King Barracuda.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r140/bcarson4374/P1020226.jpg

Great looking vise full of features. Well built, with a nice hefty base. As mentioned earlier this vise features a slot, or channel for your hook to sit in. Once seated properly, that hook is not going anywhere, no matter how much pressure you put on it. You will bend the hook before anything pops out of this vise. The base is nice and large and has a lot of weight to it. The jaws are tightened similarly to the Renzitti with a lever located at the back of the jaws.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r140/bcarson4374/P1020227.jpg

A very nice vise, but I really do prefer the Renzetti jaws, for the simple reason of how fast it is to properly seat a hook.


Next Vise is the Regal Medallion.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r140/bcarson4374/P1020232.jpg

Not a true rotary vise, but they now offer one that is. This is also the vise that is notorious for sending hooks flying if you have not seated the hook properly. This vise was my first vice I had, its served me well. The Regal, like the Dyna King has a slot to seat the hook in. If you dont get it right, the vise may spit it out at you. The jaws are opened by squeezing the lever. To tighten all you do is release the lever. If the hook didnt get in the slot perfectly, simple squeeze the lever again and reseat the hook.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r140/bcarson4374/P1020233.jpg

The Regal Medallion features a smaller base that is brass. Yet it is very stable do to the weight of the base. You can really apply some pressure with this vise and not worry about your vise tipping over.


Next up is my HMH Tube Vise.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r140/bcarson4374/P1020237.jpg

Overall a good and convenient tube fly vise. A couple things that I wish I could change is the base on the vise is very small. The other issue I have with this vise is the size of the tube you can fit in the jaw. I really wish you could fit larger tubes into this one.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r140/bcarson4374/P1020238.jpg

While I know you normally dont hammer down on tube flies when tying them, I find that the base in this vise is so small that it makes the vise unstable and just a little awkward when tying on it. Ive use some Eumer Graduated pins on it.. and just dont find this vise to all its cracked up to be, BUT... I have yet to find one that is the end all be all tube vise or anything close to that....


Next vise is the C and F Marco Polo System.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r140/bcarson4374/P1020228.jpg

I travel a lot... I mean a lot, too much time on a plane will make you do crazy things like spend $700+ on a fly tying system. But it does come with some nice,ridiculously expensive tools. Any tool you need to tie any fly is in this system. But this is about vises so here we go.

This vise has a simple yet very effective method of holding a hook. Like the Renzetti it has no slot for the hook to sit in. The haws are smooth, but the way C and F go about holding hooks is that the knob in the front of the vise applies pressure to the hook to hold it in place.. Once the small knob applies the pressure to the hook, you crank down on the knob on the back of the vise to REALLY apply pressure to the hook. I have tried a size 24 hook and a size 5/0 hook in this vise and it holds the hooks perfectly.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r140/bcarson4374/P1020229.jpg

But like the Renzetti Traveler, the base on this vise is a bit light and small. Again, its made to travel. It fits in a C and F Large Fly Box so how big could they have made it.

The Marco Polo is not a true rotary vise, while it spins- it will take your hook in all different directions if you choose to rotate it.

I enjoy the hell out of this System and if you travel a lot, or need to be mobile this system is great. Start saving your pennies.


The next and last vise is the C and F Reference Vise.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r140/bcarson4374/P1020230.jpg

Since I was so impressed with the Marco Polo System I went out and bought the Reference Vise.

The Jaws work the same way the Marco Polo works. The Reference vise is a true rotary vise. All the adjustments are simple and intuitive. Many features and all of them where thought out. From the hook hangers, to the waste bin as well as the bobbin rest. The adjustments for making sure your are on axis for the rotary feature are very easy and simple. You just pull or push the jaw arm until you have reached the desired position.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r140/bcarson4374/P1020231.jpg

The one thing that I do not like about this vise is the base. While it is large enough, there just isnt enough weight to it. It doesnt bother me enough to not tie on it. But when you come this close to perfection, you hate to mess up on something as small as a base.


In reality, you dont need more than one vise... and what you really need is something to hold a hook. All the other bells and whistles are just gravy. Even a rotary is gravy.

My suggestion would be get something that hold a hook very securely, I apply a lot of pressure when I tie saltwater flies and bass flies. So make sure you feel comfortable with your vise.

Dont skimp, unless you are not sure if fly tying is for you, or you could be wanting to upgrade in a year or so.

All the other things needed are relatively in expensive.

Good luck and welcome to the madness of fly tying. Where you will start out tying one fly, buying material for one fly- the next thing you know you have a garage full of material, way too much gear and wondering where all this stuff came from.

The really good thing to think about though is that you know can tie flies for about .15-25 cents a fly verses 3-6 dollars a fly and when you go fish with your kids and they are loosing 10-15 flies you wont feel bad loosing them.

I had a friend I went fishing with in NC that ties his own Crease Flies. Costs him about .25 cents to make. His buddy buys his Crease Flies at about $7 a fly. Every time he lost a fly to a Bluefish or Albie I could hear my friend say. "Seven Dollars, Fourteen Dollars, Twenty One Dollars." I laughed my butt off.

Yes I know I have too much time. And Gear.... But I hope it helps.

[Ed Wahl]

A very well put together and informative post B, thanks. Ed

[Jay]

Wow guys, thanks for all the help!

Sorry it took me so long to get back, spent the last two days on the ltr and in the Desolation.

Ed, that is an awesome offer, maybe I can get that vice from you when we get out next.

There are probably half a dozen flies that I am getting really tired of buying. So I will start hunting down materials for those first.

Thanks for all the input guys!

Jay