Pot cartels

[Ralph]

I'm writing an article on the Mexican Cartels and the effect of their grows on public lands. The piece is about organized crime, environmental degradation and threats to anglers, hunters etc. It is NOT about backyard gardens or low-key guerilla grows in the woods.

I'm interested in hearing personal stories from anyone who has run into "cartel" grows. I have a rather jaundiced view of well rehearsed "public information officers" and won't depend solely on them for information.

Ralph
cutter@flyline.com

[sfp]

Fish and Game biologists working in the Mendocino and Humboldt hills encounter the stuff constantly. They are good sources about the problem. Try talking to them directly. Scott Harris is a good guy.

As I'm sure you know, many of the smaller guerrilla operations are the organized crime operations. Law-breaking growers who are repaying or being paid by a larger organization.

[wjorg]

When I used to fight forest fires in Mendo, we worked downtime at a Ranger Station where a raid team planned and left from. One of the officers was shot in the confrontation, one of the suspects was killed. It is an area used for Deer Hunting.

I hear of Meth producers who dump their wastes in streams and rivers, but so do you. I have been on a river or two where everyone in the town the river floats by has a school bus in their backyard. A school bus, trailer or RV is a good place to produce meth in.

Anyone who fishes long enough on the AR has a meth addict encounter on the River but that's the not point of your story, but I cant resist. I had one guy shaking violently in Geo Metro when I was fighting a fish at Watt, when I lost it he sprang from the car pumping his fists and hollering. I've also had a skinny methhead throw a log that weighed more than him in the water upstream trying to knock me over with it, as I was wading.....

[Mik]

If you came across a cartel garden, I am not so sure you would live. From what I hear they are very ruthless and well armed. Often times their families are held hostage in Mexico, while they tend the gardens. Pretty frightening stuff.

[STEELIES/26c3]

A sad day indeed when the two headline threads in the forum are:

Pot Cartel and Guns in the AR

Hopefully, I continue to encounter only 'chrome bullets' :smirk:

M

[David Lee]

Ralph -

Let me preface this by saying I'm NOT trying to be a punk , or be overly 'P.C.' ..... I'm just a little confused (and slightly frightened) by the focus of your request .

Mexican dope rings growing/cooking on American public land ?

While there is no doubt that Mexico supplies lots of contraband here in the States , I would hope we all wouldn't single-out any criminal group by ethnic origin . We have plenty of AMERICAN dopers that are making a mess of things here - why specificly make Mexican groups the target ? What the Mexican cartels have been doing in North Mexico/Baja is well documented and tragic for the common folks down there , but I am ignorant of cartel activites (such as growing) here in California on any significant scale and fail to see why anyone would want to make a distinction based on where the operators come from .

The only reason I bring this up is .... Mexicans are seen as the cause of most problems here in CA. by the far right-wing - so bad that there has been a call in the past for building a wall between our Countries because of the flood of undocumented workers here (most of their detractors have outsourced labor/I.T. out of the Country ... which might as well be treason in my eyes) . It just sort of makes the Mexican seem like the 'bad guy' when we have plenty of natives here that would likely be a huge percentage of the criminal element .

Again , I'm not trying to get into a rant on politics ..... I'd rather see ALL scumbags called for what they are - scumbags .

Just a thought -

David

[SLOwag]

Well, the grow gardens may be more pervasive than some of us realize. I have no first hand knowledge but the evening before backpacking into the Golden Trout Wilderness, a friend and I booked a room at a small motel where three USFS law enforcement trucks were parked. I was happy to park next to them figuring nobody would be tempted to break into my truck. The inn keeper stated that they were in the area looking for large pot grows and had recently brought out 49,000 lbs, but no arrests. And that a few years back a man and his son stumbled onto a grow and were shot and killed.

Some of my recent readings show that a fair amount of backpackers/hikers/hunters and during fire season, fire fighters and aerial fire fighters spot these large grows. I attached somes links to grows in the Eastern Sierra which was a surprise to me, I always assumed that the growers would be looking for lower elevations fertile soils, better supplies of water and maybe more vegetation to hide the pot. It's probably best to be aware of the possibility of finding these operations especially when out scouting the smaller streams.

I did encounter an odd character when scouting for chukar near the upper Owens River. I had driven as far as my 4WD would take me and got the truck turned around, got out and holstered my .357 when this guy comes riding up on a bicycle of all things, he moved along back into the trees rather quickly when he saw what was on my hip...I decided that this scouting trip was over, but he was more of a dirty, unshaven white dude than anything else (probably like the AR meth heads). Be aware and safe out there.

http://www.inyoregister.com/content/view/121140/27/
http://www.inyoregister.com/content/view/121076/27/
http://www.inyoregister.com/content/view/120014/27/
http://www.inyoregister.com/content/view/70567/27/
http://www.inyoregister.com/content/view/1326/27/

[Ralph]

David-
Your response is exactly why I am writing this piece. The public is terribly ignorant of what is going on. I have toured many grow sites and the cartel grows are amazingly similar - right down to the brand of fertilizer. "Home Grown" sites are as varied as the individuals doing the grow. This link should be an eye opener for you. It is from the US Forest Service:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/podcasts/marijuana/transcript5.php

[wjorg]

As funny as it sounds, I'll say that I love Mexicans and Latins. I grew up in a neighnorhood full of a variety of folks from central and south america.

I know of a spot here or there where it seems cars sit for weeks at a time near trailheads or pullouts. All the reading material is in spanish. Now if you say what does that really mean, you tell me when you see the steepness of the surrounding south slope terrain. I stay away.

The thought process is why smuggle the dope AND the money across the border when you can just smuggle one way....

[Tracy Chimenti]

CNBC business and stocks channel had an intersting story on the pot bus. You might be able to get the video or tnsxpt. In the story, there was a couple from Missouri that come out to Garberville every year and make anywhere from 20- to 30-thousand dollars a season picking and trimming. They said it's beginning to get dangerous there now, due to the cartels. Also, I will send you a attatchment on an explosive organophosphate device the cartels are using to booby trap their gardens. It is not US EPA approved and has spanish text on it. Nasty. Glad they don't grow it in the Nevada rim-rock.

[caltagm]

SLOwag - sounds like your visitor could have been one of the humble citizens of Benton Crossing.

Mike

[wjorg]

....a garden my crew boss was cleaning up had double barrell shotguns rigged to trip wires. Luckily the fire had already caused the shells to go off prior.

Not somethin you want to come accross hiking your pontoon boat to some backwoods lake, eh Ed?

[Dabalone]

Ralph -

Let me preface this by saying I'm NOT trying to be a punk , or be overly 'P.C.' ..... I'm just a little confused (and slightly frightened) by the focus of your request .

Mexican dope rings growing/cooking on American public land ?

While there is no doubt that Mexico supplies lots of contraband here in the States , I would hope we all wouldn't single-out any criminal group by ethnic origin . We have plenty of AMERICAN dopers that are making a mess of things here - why specificly make Mexican groups the target ? What the Mexican cartels have been doing in North Mexico/Baja is well documented and tragic for the common folks down there , but I am ignorant of cartel activites (such as growing) here in California on any significant scale and fail to see why anyone would want to make a distinction based on where the operators come from .

The only reason I bring this up is .... Mexicans are seen as the cause of most problems here in CA. by the far right-wing - so bad that there has been a call in the past for building a wall between our Countries because of the flood of undocumented workers here (most of their detractors have outsourced labor/I.T. out of the Country ... which might as well be treason in my eyes) . It just sort of makes the Mexican seem like the 'bad guy' when we have plenty of natives here that would likely be a huge percentage of the criminal element .

Again , I'm not trying to get into a rant on politics ..... I'd rather see ALL scumbags called for what they are - scumbags .

Just a thought -

David

Political correctness? Now that has worked well.

[Ralph]

Tracy-
I have several friends in the business who no longer grow in the backcountry for fear of the cartels. You need to pick your fights and one you will never win is with the Mexican mafia. It's a rapidly changing scene, and not for the better. I hope everyone reads this link. http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/podcasts/mar...ranscript5.php

[matt johnson]

Ralph, thanks for bringing this up and look forward to reading your article. I too think it is a really big deal/problem.

I conduct Chinook salmon surveys in some pretty remote country of the Upper Sacramento River basin.

Antelope Creek in particular is infested with cartel activity. This year Forest Service law enforcement told us NOT to go in to our spring run Chinook holding survey areas back in July. Last year we were only able to safely survey a limited area. The year before we snorkeled one reach with law enforcement escorts.....

The canyon country of eastern Tehama County is very porous and full of seeps and springs. It is also very remote and hardly anyone goes there in the summer cause' it's hot and rugged. Perfect place for cartels to set up shop. The creeks that run through these canyons are the last stronghold of wild Central Valley spring run Chinook salmon. They are an awesome fish.

So, I guess my point is the cartel activity has gotten so bad in places in the West that it is affectiving the ability of biologists to do their jobs. Not good. Matt.

[Ned Morris]

When I went Steelhead fishing last Spring for Summer Runs on a river I will not list, I stayed at some cabins owned by a local in Northern Mendocino county. What this guy told me was truly amazing. He said anywhere from 60-75% of people in Mendocino County are connected to Pot growing, selling, smuggling in some capacity. He told me the 80 year old couple who owned a dairy farm got busted for having over 12 million dollars worth of plants and cash! One 15 year old kid at Ukiah High School was brought in with $400,000 cash in his backpack and search his room back home where the whole family had millions in pot and cash. All caucasian people by the way. The guy I stayed with was an avid turkey hunter and told me he has seen small tent cities with some guys armed to the teeth. Needless to say he told me whenever he goes hunting he packs heat. My good friend who owns some blueberry fields in Ukiah says he found pot on his property numerous times and unfortunately it was tied to one of his Latino workers. He packs a .40 smithwesson whenever now. But this all stems from the fact the Mendocino County makes pot legal in some capacity however the federal gov't looks at it differently. Personally I have only encountered one pot farm on the Navarro River above Paul Dimmick SP and below Cape Horn. Scared me to death and ran the opposite way. That is my only encounter in CA. However going to college at University of Oregon in 4 years I came accross at least a dozen pot plantations while fishing for Coho's and Steelhead out near the Nehalem River and around Florence/Reedsport area. Needless to say it is always on my mind when I go to more remote Steelhead waters on the coast. How much the cartel is connected, hard to say. You ever watch "Weeds" on Showtime? I think we'd all be surprised.

[tallguy]

Sounds like just another set of examples where our long running, unwinnable "war on drugs" has resulted in lots of excess crime and associated environmental degradation. Decriminalize, bring these operations out into the open and subject to regulation and taxation, and we will reduce our crime, better protect our watersheds, and save peoples lives. We really need to admit our failures in the war on drugs and try other approaches to the drug problem.

[Ralph]

From what I can gather from the USFS law guys, there is little to no cartel activity in the Coast range from Oregon to Monterey. The lower Sierra slopes and foothills on all sides of the Sac/SJ Valley, coastal ranges Salinas south, and So Cal are the major producers for the cartels.

It's getting to be a crazy story. The more I learn the more I want to wring someone's neck and shout, "Just legalize the stuff!!". This would all be a non-issue overnight.

[fallriverfish]

The front cover for Mother Jones August Edition

"We've blown $300 billion, death squads roam mexico, Cartels operate in 259 US cities, This is your war on drugs. any questions ?"

The real scary thing is that most of this activity is being run from inside our tax payer based prison system. Have any of the prison guards received pay cuts or benefit slashes ? Maybe they should have to go tromping through the woods and have it out with the emme. Or maybe they are already on the take ???

[Scott V]

If you look closely you can see the white sheds all over the mountain. There are 4 different locations in this one picture. And there are more to the left and the right, one of our friends that lives in the back country had the police raid them to only find out that the mexican mafia had been growing on their back property without them even knowing. This is going on all over the place.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/PsychoZ/IMGP1239.jpg

[Dave Neal]

Ralph, I'm looking forward to reading your article...

These huge large scale grows are a big problem on our public lands. Especially, when considering the damage (diversions) and chemicals used for fertilizer etc. along these small remote streams.

Matt Johnson brings up other great points.

One day late this summer, we were fishing the Upper Owens River. Lightning nearby chased us back to the truck (fly rods were humming and the metal hook keeper above the cork grip kept zapping my finger!!) Anyway, lightning strikes started a good fire on the backside of the Glass Mountains just east of the Upper O. Soon enough, air crews and ground crews responded to the fires... just a few days later the local news reported two HUGE farms back there with a street value est. around $80 million!!! Cartels were apparently involved both these grows, but nobody was apprehended as they probably fled during the fires and attention they got. (The backside of the Glass Mtns. is a remote area w/ a bunch of little spring creeks compared to what you see from the west side of the range)

Maybe taxation/legalization is finally the answer? We need to do some hard accounting and look at how much $$ is spent trying to control it. We are, after all, a free society??

FYI, I don't recall anyone simply fishing around here ever having major encounters with growers/pickers in the backcountry since most places are pretty well traveled, even w/ all the wilderness areas. But I have heard stories of deer hunters encountering some sketchy way off the beaten path situations... course they were also armed!

[Ed Wahl]

This is some scary stuff Ralph.

Quite possibly the most important article you've done yet.

I've come across black vinyl tubing while hunting mountain quail before, but it was after the harvest season and before the Cartels.

Good luck man, and be careful yourself.

Ed

[BobVP]

Ralph,
I suggest that you contact Glenna Anderson. she writes for the Press Democrat (Santa Rosa) and may be a valuable source.

As for the comment that "...65-70%...of the population in Mendocino County works in the pot industry....", I take some umbrage. That number is huge when you think about it! It may be that the is the percentage of people in a small part of the county, say around Covelo, but it does a disservice to the many, many people her that work hard to make a living to "old fashioned way", by hard work. I have lived here for 35 years, never grew a plant, never trimmed a bud, never bought an ounce. It certainly is true that the $$ percentage is very high but, just as we don't know the real numbers of the percentage of population that works in that area, we also may never really know the true dollar value of the "crops".

The concept of legalization is certainly an intriguing one and almost as certainly the biggest group to fight legalization will be (in my opinion) the cartels. Read the history of prohibition and find the quotes from some of the biggest mob bosses of the time when prohibition ended, they hated that.

Over and over the past few year the sheriff, Tom Alman, and the DA, Meridith Lintott, have been trying to get out to the public after every big bust the message that "these people don't "live" here". The folks arrested are from Kansas, New York, Colorado, Mexico, Canada, New Jersey, Arkansas....

I am glad you are involved an writing the article. Just last week there was a big bust on the South Fork of the Eel where the growers were diverting water from the Eel! Diverting water from a river running less than 50% of normal in the third year of a drought with salmon struggling to survive. Hopefully these folks will get prosecuted on the environmental damages, the heck with the pot charges! Let Fish and Game get at them.

[Cmcculloch]

The next meeting of California Fly Fishers Unlimited (CFFU) on Tuesday October 6 will have Patrick Foy, Fish and Game warden speak about the environmental effects of the marijuna gardens. He will also describe some of his adventures on these large busts, and provide advice for us on what to do if we come across one. The business meeting starts at 7 pm. The meeting is at Camp Pollock (Boy Scout Camp), 1501 Northgate Blvd., Sacramento. Guests interested in fly fishing or marijuna gardens are welcome to attend.

We are also having a fly fishing "yard sale" by our members the same evening starting at 5 pm before the meeting. A variety of fly fishing gear only (NO JUNK) will be for sale.

Check our web site at www.cffu.org for more information.