Roosterzzzzz.....

[Darian]

In a thread under the Fly Tying Forum, David Lee asked Steve Cali to start a thread here for insights into catching Rooster Fish (Pez Gallo) in the surf.

Since I have some questions concerning that area, too, thought I'd start one off by stating that I've caught Pez Gallo on the fly, out of a panga while chumming, but still have a problem getting them in the surf. :confused: Definitely not dialed in.

It seems that Roosters prefer a very fast retrieve and that they're always on the move; never stationary targets. 8-) I've tried large flies and small on sinking lines (T-14 and/or shooting tapers) with equal non-success. Had a large Rooster swim right by my knees but couldn't get 'im to bite.... ARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!! :mad:

Do these fish only feed while blitzing bait in the surf line :?: :?: Are choices of sink rates in lines important in the surf :?::?: I need some help.... :confused:

[David Lee]

Sorry I'm late on this , the flu reared its ugly head over here ....

Things I know about Roosters/Roosterfish truths -

-The roosterfish has an unusual arrangement of its ears: the swim bladder penetrates the brain through the large foramina and makes contact with the inner ear. It uses its swim bladder to amplify sounds. One could take this info as the Rooster having VERY good hearing ??

-Roo's don't smell very good . They actually smell sour and nasty . No teeth to speak of ....

-Roo is the ONLY fish I've ever met that exibits emotions .... they always look half crazy/half pissed off . I keep expecting one to SCREAM in my face when landed ...

-Roosters don't seem to like a dark flyline/shooting head . I catch more w/ a clear line/head . They don't seem leader-shy .....

-Roosterfish are insanely strong - my best (14 or 15 Lbs.) ran 70-100+ yards repeatedly against a stiff drag .

-Roo doesn't seem bothered by very much while hunting/killing things . I'm not clear on if it's target fixation or lack of fear .... they will run into your legs whilst in pursuit of chow (makes for dirty swimtrunks/increased heart rate/occasional tears).

-Rooster seems slightly more willing to eat a fly if they have a Rooster-buddy near - competitive , perhaps ???

Questions I have about Roo's -

#1 -Will they key on whatever bait is around (Ballyhoo , Ladyfish , Sardina ) , or does throwing a specific fly to match , say .... a Mullet matter that much ????

#2 -Most of my fish are hooked blind-casting . Does it really pay to fish blind for the 'big' ones ??

#3 -I retrieve fast - VERY fast . Is there a 'Roosterfish strip' that works better than flat-out ??

#4 - Is everyone else afraid of Roo , or am I the only one ??

Hopefuly , there will be answers ..... so I can sleep at night .

(Thanks , Darian and Steve !!)

David

[Scott V]

When the Roos got tough in La Paz this last year I tried Jay's 2 handed retrieve and it worked. There is no way to strip faster than with 2 hands. Put the rod under your arm pit and strip with both hands, it makes for one exciting hook set when it all comes together.

[Darian]

I can't contribute much on surf but, from everything I've read, blind casting is the least effective approach. Most Pez Gallo targeted in the surf are spotted while blitzing a bait ball (someone confirm or de-bunk this :confused: ). I'm really not up to that type of fishing. Requires watching until a blitz is spotted and then running at breakneck speed into the surf to make a cast before it stops (too old and stiff:rolleyes:).

About bait fish targeted by Roosters, from Jay's post about recent catches by Jonathons groups (Tailhunter Int'l), the larger fish were caught on trolled Lady Fish. :nod: Not sure I want to try to cast a pattern large enough to imitate a Lady Fish, tho.... ;)

Roosters must target whatever bait fish is available at a given moment. Steve Cali's Estar Listo pattern looks to be a good imitation of a Mullet. 8-) Another pattern by Steve is the Hybrid. it looks to have a Sea Habit type head, a Rasta type tail and a bucktail collar. Also, has a clearly marked black bar at the end of the tail. Again, the coloration/overall size strongly mimicks a Mullet. Altho Steve has caught fish on this pattern, I've tried a smaller/olive version (including the black bar) out of a panga without success. :confused: The fly became more productive when I trimmed the tail. :nod: Maybe the barring is more pronounced on the larger, older Mullet. :confused:

During each of the last 3 years at La Ventana, I've seen Roosters patrolling just outside of the limited surf line, swimming thru massive schools of Sardina and not even slow down or blitz the bait. However, take a panga outside and chum a few fish, cast a fly and there's a good chance you'll get a follow or a hook-up.... :confused: This year, in June, I saw schools of Pez Gallo numbering in the 50's at a time passing by and under our panga in Muertos Bay. They were all headed in a single direction. They were large and would respond to chumming but I hooked up on a fly only a limited number of times. Bait fishing was successful. :nod: At the time, I was getting so frustrated that I wanted to jump overboard and "rassle" one of 'em.... :mad:

[mdl]

Do you guys have experience/opinions on hook size? My last outing in May I had several hits, bumps, takes etc. Unfortunatley I had tied all my flies on a 2/0 600 sp. I am thinking of tying the same patterns on size 1 or even 2 for next year. I like the sp for the shape and I generally never have a fish pop off of that hook. What hooks do you have success?
And what about flash? More flash or more natural?

[Steve Cali]

Darian and Dave,

First off let me start by saying I am no expert at this game, but I have many years experience....sounds funny but guys like Grant Hartman and Lance Peterson have really nailed this fishery down as they do this type of fishing for a living.

Anyways, for me and for what it's worth...

Rods: I like to use a 10wt or 11wt. rod from the beach preferably Sage TCX and G Loomis CC rods (it's a personal choice). This gets me in the game from calm to windy days, and from smaller flies to big ol flies. The more windy the mo better the fishing...grin...

Lines: I love S/A Streamer Express Clear tip Intermediate 400 grain for my 10 wt and Rio's Outbound short Clear Tip Intermediate 510 grian for my 11wt. The 460 is nice too...On windy days Rio's Deep Sea 500 - 600 grain lines work great at cutting the wind. There are also a ton of techniques used to cast the East Cape's steep beaches and windy days.

Leaders: I do think Roos are leader shy and use a tapered floro leader terminating in a 8kg or 10kg tippet.

Flies: I use my Estar Listo and G & S Hybrid (gives me the most confidence) and connect my tippet with a Palomar knot for more durability in the sand and surf.

Finding Fish: Sight casting is most productive. However, this type of fishing usually takes place from 10:30 a.m. or so till around 4:00p.m. This is when the light (sun) penetrates the water and alows you to see into the water with your polorized sun glasses. Fishing bait busts etc are very productive as well in the early moring and late evening, but there is nothing better than sight casting and feeding a Grande Roo with nothing but you, your cast and your fly (no chum).

Strip: Roos like a fast moving target but once a Roo tracks your fly She will let you know what she wants by her behavior. So, you adjust your strip during your retrieve. Also, for me, I hate the two hand retrieve (again for me) because your are not in tune with your Roo. I love to make my cast, raise a Roo's comb and be in tune with her the entire way adusting my strip etc...

Disclaimer: Everything I have mentioned here is a product of my many years of fishing with Grant Hartman, and this is where I give credit where credit is due. My response to this thread is to be general in info and for those of you who really want to learn the game should book a trip with Grant or Lance. Nothing beats learning from those who love Beach fishing for Roos for a living. They live, breath and experience this fishery on a daily basis...

Steve Cali

[Darian]

mdl,.... For most of the fishing I've done out of a Panga the flies are tied on 2/0, SC 15 or SL 12, Gamakatsu hooks. I have flies tied on larger and smaller size hooks but the most used is 2/0. I have a few patterns (Gary Bulla's Tuna Tux in black/white and my version of the Estar Listo) tied on Tiemco, 600 SP hook; same size and larger. IMHO, hook size is sometimes a function of the type of fish/fishing you're doing at the moment. It pays to have flies in a number of sizes and basic patterns. 8)

Depending on who you talk to, a lot of flash is important. Some say it's a deterrent for fish. The panga captain I fish with seems to have a good feel for when it's important to use flash and when not to. Since he's been very productive for my fishing partner and I, he has our blessing to strip flash out of a fly or leave it in for a particular situation. I guess that means we should listen carefully and heed local advice. ;)

I'm still digesting Steve's latest post (especially about Roosters being leader shy).... :confused:

[David Lee]

Interesting stuff there , Steve .... Thank you VERY much for taking the time to give us info !

A few more questions , I hope you can elaborate a little more ....

"I do think Roos are leader shy and use a tapered floro leader terminating in a 8kg or 10kg tippet." - I will take this as you use a fairly long (9-12 foot) leader ?

When you spot Roo at distance (say ....... 50+ yards) , do you want to cast at an angle in front of Roo , or do you try to shoot perpendicular and hope that the fish turns into the beach for the follow ?? Any proven way to 'seal the deal' when your fly is running out of water ???

Flash in the fly - good or bad ?????

" The more windy the mo better the fishing...grin..." Why ?? Roo is less spooky ?? Fisher is less visible ???

I have seen Roosters eat Sardine , Croaker , Ladyfish , Sierra , and Mullet - what is the most common bait you have seen consumed ???

Again - I thank you for taking the time to help us !!

David

MDL - I think pretty much any HEAVY hook will do , make sure it'll hold up to stress , though ..... those fish are powerful !

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

This spring I had my first and only trip for Roosterfish plus other nice fish too in La Paz, Mexico with Jay Murakoshi and friends. I had fished in Loreto before but this trip to La Paz is my favorite now.

We fished for 5 days for Roosters with schools of smaller fish and some big ones too. Three of the days we did well with Roosters from 5 to 15 pounds which are wonderful but not big trophy size.

I used a 10 weight rod with a new Rio Outbound Tropical Short floating line for the entire trip. All the action was on top so I didn't see a need for myself to use anything but a floater. When I finally got an Airhead fly on there given to me by Jim Christensen I started catching fish. Before that they didn't even seem to notice my other streamer flies?

I just waited till fish came up feeding on top and cast in front of them.

I used 30# FC for tippet so all those little needlefish around the boat would not chew through it.

I would say that Roosterfish are on of the most exciting fish to watch feed on the surface.

Try to fish out of LA Paz in June sometime.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __

A good friend of ours, George Brown of Stockton, CA, goes to Zihuatanejo, Mexico every year to fish for large Roosterfish along the beaches to the north. He has found a really top skipper there who specializes in sight casting to big fish on the beach. They tease in the fish by casting a special metal spoon with no hooks. George showed us a picture this year of a 60#er. George only uses a 10 weight rod with a floating line.

[mems]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/mems15/P6180202.jpg
I got this one on a 10wt baby blue TFO at the Light house Isla Cervallo.

[David Lee]

Nice fish Don !!

Pull you around a bit on the 10 wt. ???

David

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Catching a big (over 20#) Roosterfish by actually fly casting, not trolling, use to be a big deal.

Now it is getting a little more common with more sophistication in fly fishing for them.

**I would see photos of big Dorado or Roosterfish from customers years ago and finally I would get it out of them that they were actually trolling with a fly rod, not fly casting. Some even trolling with live bait on a fly rod.

[Steve Cali]

Hi David,

The more in front of the fish you are the better your odds, but if you can't make that cast a perpendicular cast to the fish can work...

Leaders are anywhere from 6 - 10 feet or so the more wind or larger surf the shorter the leader etc...

As for Roos being caught in the 20lb class from the beach being a more common thing, I don't think so...There are only a handful that do this regularly. From the boat this is another story. You have chum, teasers etc...

A Roo caught from the beach with no use of a teaser or chum is a very difficult task. From the boat is a hole other game which puts the odds in favor of the angler. I am not trying to dismiss a catch from a boat but I am being up front on the difficulty it is to catch a Roo over 20lbs from the beach.

It's a very difficult fishery but worth a whole week for 1 Roo over 30lbs...

SC

[Darian]

Ok, lets talk leaders. Figuring out how to attract a large (10 to 60 pounds and larger) predatory fish to bite in very clear water can be difficult. The leader needs to be thick enough to transmit power to turn over a 3" to 7" fly while being thin enough to appear invisible to the fish. Not to mention that the leader has to be strong enough to allow landing the fish in fairly short order. :-k

From personal experience, mid-day fishing conditions involve very clear water and that mildly breezy conditions will ripple the surface and stir up the bottom enough to make a presentation easier. 8-)

Lots of variables involved here. :confused: I've used 9', tapered, mono leaders in the 15 to 20 pound test range in the surf at East Cape. No luck on Roosters. Of course, this was early in my experiences down there. I used a non-loop type fly connection knot then. Now (from a panga) I use a twisted butt section with a mono tippet and the non-slip Kreh Loop. Overall length of the leader is approximately 6 1/2'. I always start with a 20 pound test tippet. If no love, I switch to 15 pound test. :|

Does anyone use twisted (not furled) leaders in the surf :question: How about preference of Flourocarbon over Mono in the surf :question:

[Steve Cali]

David,

I forgot to answer your other questions regarding Flash and most eaten baitfish by Roo.

For me, the less flash the better. I use sparse amounts of angel hair and electra scale etc...

Roosters main meals that I have seen have been 1. mullet 2. ladyfish 3. ballyhoo and other small baitfish...

Darian, I use twisted bimini leaders from the boat and will adjust if needed to tapered leaders etc... In the surf the twisted leaders reflect too much light for the types of presentations I am trying to achieve with such a spooky fish on the inshore...

SC

[David Lee]

Like Darian said .... LOTS of stuff to digest here !!

Thanks again , Steve (and everyone else ) !!!!!!

David

[Steve Cali]

This says it all...

Your fly, your cast, your tease....YOUR FISH!

Lance Peterson displaying a GRANDE!

[Darian]

WOW!!!! :eek: Now THAT's a Rooster.... :nod: :nod: