just wonderful...

[Darrin.Deel]

http://www.calsport.org/8-4-09d.htm

Kill those pikeminnows!

[Dabalone]

I posted about a trip to the Feather river earlier this year, target was shad but all I caught were pike minnows. They were everywhere and grabbed anything I tied on in shallow riffles to deeper cuts. Up until just a few short years ago, this is an area where you could watch thousands of salmon spawning every Fall as far back as I can remember, not anymore. The thought had never crossed my mind I would witness this stretch of river I have fished all my life devoid of salmon in the Fall. So Sad.

[Tony Buzolich]

This article that just came out says exactly what I posted on 3-19-2009. Striped bass are one of the biggest predators of Squawfish (Pike Minnow).

I just came in from the Sac River chasing stripers and we had a pretty good day with fish up to 18lbs, but we also had big Squawfish up to around 10-12lbs. These Pike Minnow, Squawfish, hardhead, etc, etc, whatever you want to call them, do an unimaginable amount of damage to the fry of all species including salmon and steelhead.

The rivers throughout the state are thick with them from mountain streams to valley rivers and the delta too.

Now, here's the real pisser, they're a NATIVE fish. And, because they're a Native fish they come under some sort of PROTECTED statis like Delta Smelt. Hell, they EAT the damn smelt too.

I said in my post of 3/19 that there are numerous reasons for the decline of our salmon stock and striped bass are but one small part of the equation. Compare the population of striped bass in our state to the population of Pike Minnows and I bet the biggest amount of damage is coming from our own native predator.

Add to this the lack of water, add offshore commercial encrowment from other countries, add the predation of the Humbolt Squid to our area, add add add. It just keeps going on.

[WinterrunRon]

I've never caught a small squawfish while casting for stripers, only what I consider big ones over several pounds. But in my limited experience in catching them, I'm convinced BIG, REALLY BIG stripers love 'em. More than once, I've had a squawfish on the line in the American and a mouth the size of a bowling ball coming at the boat after it. And now I never reel those guys in fast any more... they get slack line from me!

I'm no population expert, but it makes sense to me that if the big stripers are not in balanced numbers and around to keep the squawfish population in check, it's open season on salmon and steelhead fry by these voracious fish. So I'm not surprised by the increased numbers of squawfish due to the decreased numbers of stripers. :(

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

We need a "slot limit" for Stripers but I don't think we will ever get it in California because of the commercial salmon lobbyist.

The CA DF&G doesn't even want anyone to be planting Stripers.

**I also like to give those 'Squawfish/Sacramento Pike' a thumb through the scull for good luck when I catch them. Then the crawfish love me.............

[Mrs.Finsallaround]

this article that just came out says exactly what i posted on 3-19-2009. Striped bass are one of the biggest predators of squawfish (pike minnow). . .

. . . I said in my post of 3/19 that there are numerous reasons for the decline of our salmon stock and striped bass are but one small part of the equation. Compare the population of striped bass in our state to the population of pike minnows and i bet the biggest amount of damage is coming from our own native predator.

amen to that!

[Jgoding]

Maybe it's time to rethink not throwing turning them into fertilizer..... what's the legal take on squaws if any?? I guess I could look it up I suppose....

[matt johnson]

Hi all,

The "bum rap" Sacramento Pikeminnow suffer from started with misguided fish biologists/managers influencing public opinion back in the day. Looks like it is going to take a while to get over those misconceptions and prejudices.....

Here is a good read:

http://www.atlantismagazine.com/bettelheim/pike.pdf

I think they have been largely displaced in the lower river system by striped bass. So, yeah, as striped bass numbers continue to decline, it may be natural for pikeminnow numbers to increase. Bottom line is big fish eat little fish.

In the upper Sacramento River, say Red Bluff to Redding, the water temperature rarely gets above 59 degreesF. Pikeminnows don't like that warm water so much but the trout sure do. This is the area of the river where most of the Chinook spawn. Maybe we should start chucking those damn Rainbows up on the bank? Matt.

[David Lee]

Maybe it's time to rethink not throwing turning them into fertilizer..... what's the legal take on squaws if any?? I guess I could look it up I suppose....

I've had a deep dislike of Squawfish since I started fishing 40+ years ago . I used to whack every single one I landed , or give 'em a good squeeze on the release . I totally quit killing them 3 or 4 years ago because I figured they evolved there (with the Salmon and Steelhead) , so they serve a purpose of some sort beyond my limited understanding .

Strange thing - the older I get , the less I want to remove ANY critters . 'Trash' fish , varmits in the Garden , bugs , whatever .....

Boneheads DO make great fertilizer when buried under veggies .

David

[Ralph]

Peter Moyle wrote the definitive work on pikeminnow in "California Inland Fishes". To make a long story short, salmonids and pikeminnow have co-evolved over tens of thousands of years and their life cycles have little overlap except where forced together by dams and diversions.

Tom Cannon studied the predator/prey relationships of fishes in the Lower Yuba for over a decade. He autopsied thousands and thousands of fish and found that once fish were outside the influence of man-made structures (ie Daguerre Point Dam) there were very few salmonids in the bellies of pikeminnow. Pikeminnow prefer slow, easy to catch fish such as suckers, hitch, catfish, etc.
The largest predator of salmonids were not stripers or pikeminnow as everybody assumes, but SHAD! During the spring/summer shad run they literally vacuum the river clean of any out-migrating salmon or steelhead fry. Not sure what to do with that information, but at least we can start by eliminating myths. And dams.

[Dabalone]

Predation on salmon by pike minnows is taken seriously on the Columbia. The goal is not total eradication but to limit their numbers significantly and the State of Oregon has a program of paying anglers cash to take pike minnows out of the system. They estimate pike minnows eat millions of salmon and steelhead fry each year. Same minnow we have here in our rivers.


http://www.piersystem.com/go/doc/1582/226837/

[Tony Buzolich]

The same type of program was started several years ago on the Russian River and co-sponsered by Long's Drug Stores in Ukiah and headed up by the Ukiah Rod and Gun Club.

People would actually go and fish for the "pike minnows" and then take them in to Long's where they'd be exchanged for chit to be used in the store for whatever purchase. As you'd drive along Hwy.101 you'd see groups and families actively fishing for Squawfish. It was a working program.

I don't know if it is still going on because of the state's financial predicament but it was a good program.

[SHigSpeed]

The research that states that pike don't thrive in water below 58ish is odd. I fish on the Rube where the water this morning was 51 degrees and the breeching pike were everywhere. I didn't bonk and released a healthy 18"er too. Heck, it takes a fly and it fights hard and it's native it goes back.

_SHig

[MarcP]

Yes KILL those pikeminnow! Catch and DECEASE!

They serve no anthropocentric purposes; so who needs ‘em? The only animals this planet needs are the ones that are pleasing to the palette or make good sport, everything else is trash and has no right to live. Animals have no intrinsic value, the only value they possess is the one that WE humans assign them, because WE are the deciders… ](*,)

Remember to carefully release those stripers and shad. :rolleyes:

[Darian]

"anthropocentric" :?: :?: :?: :?: Are you kiddin' :?: :?: :?:

[SHigSpeed]

Yes KILL those pikeminnow! Catch and DECEASE!

They serve no anthropocentric purposes; so who needs ‘em? The only animals this planet needs are the ones that are pleasing to the palette or make good sport, everything else is trash and has no right to live. Animals have no intrinsic value, the only value they possess is the one that WE humans assign them, because WE are the deciders… ](*,)

Remember to carefully release those stripers and shad. :rolleyes:

Heh... :thumbsup:

_SHig

[SHigSpeed]

"anthropocentric" :?: :?: :?: :?: Are you kiddin' :?: :?: :?:

anthropocentric (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=anthropocentric)

[Darian]

Shig,.... Got it the first time. Just trying to play a bit....

[aaron]

Yes KILL those pikeminnow! Catch and DECEASE!

They serve no anthropocentric purposes; so who needs ‘em? The only animals this planet needs are the ones that are pleasing to the palette or make good sport, everything else is trash and has no right to live. Animals have no intrinsic value, the only value they possess is the one that WE humans assign them, because WE are the deciders…

Remember to carefully release those stripers and shad.

Now that, folks, is how to troll. Well done sir.

[Ed Wahl]

anthropocentric

Hmmm.............

Sublime sarcasm? :eek: Where'd this guy come from?

Note to self.

Do not play Scrabble with MarcP.:unibrow:

Good stuff Marc.

Ed

[Greg F]

I Googled "striped bass predation chinook salmon" and found studies indicating that Pikeminnow and Striped bass each consume about 10% of the salmon smolts.

http://fishbull.noaa.gov/1012/10lindle.pdf
http://cwemf.org/Pubs/TempReview.pdf

Greg

[Tony Buzolich]

It seems like lately there are more and more LARGE Pike Minnows around and they're getting to be pretty common when you're fishing for anything else in the rivers.

Here's one that Frank took on a recent striper trip. Note that he can barely get his hand around the base of the tail. We've taken several like this one almost every trip out.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/buzolich/IMGP0023-1.jpg

If you stop at any of the boat landings where they have a cleaning station during striper or salmon season (when there was one) there's usually a chute dropping the heads and guts back in to the river. Take a look at the bottom of the chute and you'll see these Squawfish piled up there by the thousands and some are a lot bigger than the one in the picture. They eat the scraps here as scavengers but they are by no means that only.

As for them eating "about" the same number of salmon smolt as stripers do, I'd have to disagree based on their sheer numbers alone. They inhabit every creek, stream, and river in the state. How many stripers do you see on the Smith or the Klamath, or the Trinity? You damn sure see plenty of squawfish though. They're everywhere!

[matt johnson]

Tony,

Thats a dandy "squaw". Thanks for sharing!

I work with this guy from Wisconsin sometimes. He likes to fish the creek mouths and sloughs of the Sac with topwater early am for the variety of species that lurk in such waters.

He gets super jazzed about the Sac. Pikeminnows he catches. A couple years ago I was like: "Huh?!?, You like those pikemeinnows eh?...Well, good for you!"

Now I understand his point. They don't pull hard, but they are explosive on top. It's all a matter of perspective I guess?

What I think we can all agree on is how bad off our Central Valley salmon stocks are....

I wish helping the salmon problem were as easy as hatin' on Pikeminnows but it is not, and if we anglers and CSPA keep getting behind that idea we are going to play right into the Coalition For a Sustainable Delta's hands. We will sound like hypocrites whenever we rally behind protecting our striper fishery!

Predation is not the problem! Keep gettin' those river stripers and Pikeminnows! I hope to get out there soon myself for a nice predator grab! Matt.

[WinterrunRon]

I've never personally seen or caught these fish outside the American Rivers or Sacramento. That they inhabit the Trinity, Klamath and Smith is news to me. Not that I doubt it, I've just personally never seen/caught one... or know of anyone who has. I suspect they'd be in the Feather as well, but again, I have no experience with this fish on the Feather either.

But I feel like a non-sporting fish THAT big :eek:, is getting that big (or in the numbers being claimed) by eating lots of something we rather they left for us to catch. Honestly, that fish probably gave an awesome fight. I can't tell the difference from the fight of a striper. But I'm so dissapointed everytime I discover it's NOT a striper. I have no problem bonking 'em on the head prior to peaceful release.

BTW, the other fish I see in large numbers are the suckers. I know they love the eggs, but as far as I know, they don't eat other fish. Who knows, they may be doing more to supress the sporting fish population than the pike minnows. Perhaps others know more about this and can share.

That's all I know about that.

[Greg F]

Well I'm not hating on Stripers and pikeminnows, and I want to protect our fisheries. I just want to know the truth about predation. Naturally, about 50% of the salmon get eaten by some kind of predators before they make it to the ocean. The best thing we could hope for is that the other 50% don't die from the pumps, warm water due to low flows, and pollution (you know, the things that pumping more water makes worse).

Greg

[OceanSunfish]

So I'm not surprised by the increased numbers of squawfish due to the decreased numbers of stripers. :(

I'm not surprised either.

Tony B. also states what many long time residents of the valley towns along the rivers know to be true; that there is a direct corelation between the robust population of pike minnow/sqauwfish and the lackluster runs of striped bass that would normally make trips up the various rivers.

Bottom line is that the entire ecosystem related to the waterways from the dams to the SF Bay are out of balance. While some species all but seemingly vanish, others, like squawfish seem to flourish. Not good.

BTW, there is one particular rip-rap wall along the Feather adjacent to a popular boat ramp that is usually loaded with very big squawfish.

Do we restore balance by partcipating in catch and take of squawfish? Aren't we part of the balancing 'act'? Just stiring the 'pot'.

[matt johnson]

For those still convinced that an assumed population explosion of Sacramento Pikeminnow is wiping out the juvenile salmon and steelhead in the Central Valley, I would suggest going back to page 1 and re-reading Ralph's post. It's a good one. I'll re-print the gist of it below to save you time. The part about "co-evolution" is not to be missed. The Red Bluff Diversion Dam is going to be history in a couple years. That is something all fish lovers can be happy about! Respectfully, Matt.

Peter Moyle wrote the definitive work on pikeminnow in "California Inland Fishes". To make a long story short, salmonids and pikeminnow have co-evolved over tens of thousands of years and their life cycles have little overlap except where forced together by dams and diversions.

Tom Cannon studied the predator/prey relationships of fishes in the Lower Yuba for over a decade. He autopsied thousands and thousands of fish and found that once fish were outside the influence of man-made structures (ie Daguerre Point Dam) there were very few salmonids in the bellies of pikeminnow. Pikeminnow prefer slow, easy to catch fish such as suckers, hitch, catfish, etc.
The largest predator of salmonids were not stripers or pikeminnow as everybody assumes, but SHAD! During the spring/summer shad run they literally vacuum the river clean of any out-migrating salmon or steelhead fry. Not sure what to do with that information, but at least we can start by eliminating myths. And dams.