Sailfish/marlin fly question

[Scott V]

I was given 3 billfish flies and have a question about the double hook rig that is has. I have heard that if you break off one of these flies that has the double hook rig you can hook the fish in both the top and bottom part of the mouth and cause the fish to possibly not be able to eat. Then it woud starve to death and this is something I do not want to happen. So my question is can I just cut off one of the hooks, and if so do I cut of the front or rear hook.

Thanks

[Darian]

Hi Scott,.... I was hoping some of the more experienced guys would reply about this but since they haven't.... :confused:

Have no personal experience with this double hooking occurring but have heard the same thing you have about the hooking problem. It doesn't sound unreasonable. I have purchased and tied several billfish flies that have tandem hook set-ups but have only hooked a large Dorado on it while trolling as of now. :|

From everything I've read/seen, some fisherman use a trailer hook approximately 6" behind the front hook. Therefore, the wire is flexible. Others use a trailer hook that is connected with a doubled wire, close to the bend of the front hook and is not very flexible. Both fly types are bulky/heavy to cast and that makes it a bit scary to cast the fly with the longer, flexible connection in any amount of wind. :eek:

It seems to me that the possibility of hooking a fish in the lower/upper jaws simultaneously (virtually locking it's jaw closed) is more likely with the longer, flexible wire connection. Bill wrapping the fish. I guess that could happen with the short connector too (hooking both jaws inside the mouth :confused: ). Altho it didn't with the Dorado. :cool:

I would choose to cut off the rear hook as you still have to cast with the trailer waiving around in the wind. Of course, cutting off the bend of the front hook may give you a better opportunity to hook a fish.... :confused:

Keep in mind that you're getting this from a guy who hasn't hooked a billfish on one of those flies, yet. ;)

[Jay Murakoshi]

Scott,

I tied tandem rig hooks for Trey Comb's blue water trips. Trey and I discussed this one year at the show and he mentioned that he prefers to use a single hook fly. One of the reasons was the fouling of the synthetic materials in the stinger hook. Once you get the material all matted and twisted, the fly is useless. But a solution that Trey and I found was to take a fair amount of bucktail and tie the hair in at the eye of the hook and flair it. Thus making a canopy so that materials will suspend on the top. It wasn't completely foul proof but it did help. I prefer to use a single hook. They fly I'm fishing for the marlin and sails is a 6/0 wig hair pattern around 6" to 8" in length. I'm only casting 40' max.

I'm going out 3 times this week and hope to get into the marlin and sails. A few dorado would be nice but a HUGE rooster would be the icing on the cake. Anyway, no client this week and the weather is really starting to change. Five rods are rigged and ready to go.
I'm going to try and hook up a marlin on the TFO Mini Mag rod. I will have both my Canon mini cam and the GoPro cam out there. Giving the captain a quick lesson in video photography. There are 4 fly guys here from Colorado, first timers and out by themselves. There part of Jonathan's group. They should be back in so I'll be getting their report.

How many more weeks until you're in Baja? 4 - hell I can't remember, don't keep track of dates, days or time.

See you and the gang soon

Jay


Bill, I've already got the partner list made out. I'll email it to you and you can look at it

[David Lee]

I'm going to try and hook up a marlin on the TFO Mini Mag rod.

Jay -

That rod is rated as an 8-10 wt. . Trying it on a Marlin sounds like a really bad idea , both for the rod and , especially , the Marlin . I sure hope you are joking ?

David

[Jay Murakoshi]

David,

Not a joke. I know the limits on the rod. Lay it flat out and the rod will survive. As for the marlin, if I can't get a marlin to the boat in 10 to 12 minutes, then I break if off. You watch for the color change. If I see any signs of lactic acid build up, he's broken off immediately. I've landed small marlin and sails on a 10 wt before.
Have you ever use the circling tactic in landing a marlin. We've done that a number of times.
I'm one who doesn't believe in killing fish, especially something like marlin or sails. there getting to damn scarce down here. A few years ago, I actually jumped on a couple guys in group who killed a sail fish for photo's on the beach. BUT it's your money, your trip you can kill any fish you want but I'd like to see it eaten.

Not to worry

Jay

[David Lee]

Have you ever use the circling tactic in landing a marlin.

Jay -

The closest I've been to a live Marlin has been perhaps 150 yards . I will defer to your experence when it comes to catching them (and in fact defer to you for ALL things Marlin related !) . I just thought the rod choice was crazy-light ....

David

[Jay Murakoshi]

David,

Hope I didn't come on too strong. After I sent the message, I thought s*** . Been in the sun too much, especially the last few days. My tan has gone to 10 shades darker. I started wearing a long sleeve shirt yesterday and damn near die with that thing on. I've already shedded 2 layers of skin. But I love it

The Mini Mag is definitely not a marlin rod. One year, Hanley and I were out fishing in a big school of skippies. I was using the Loomis CC GLX 9wt on the skippies when all of sudden there were sails all around. What the hell let's make a cast, ken didn't want any part of it. He started to say something when "fish on". The sail made 5 jumps before it threw the fly. Probably no further than 25' from the back of the boat. Three guys hit the deck pretty damn fast. Needless to say Ken was a happy camper.

Most if not all the big fish I catch, I revive even if takes 25 minutes. Or if like marlin/sails, after a certain amount of time, I'll break it off.

I hope to have some video of marlin on the fly. Maybe some underwater shots.

Jay

[ALAN MAX]

Jay you are dead on, the hook up and the first 15 minutes is where it's at!! A couple of years ago out of la paz we hit it wide open on small sails and marlin, it was crazy!!Our captain was getting upset after the third break off, he said my family will eat them. I told him I'll tip you enough that you can buy all the fish you want.After he realized we where not going to kill a bill fish He was good to go and game on.
As far as the rod 10w is what we used it is light, BUT isn't that why we flyfish? To see that rod bent to the breaking point?? AWESOME FUN.


"ADDICTED to bent rods"

[jbird]

BUT isn't that why we flyfish? To see that rod bent to the breaking point?? AWESOME FUN.

I dont agree with this at all. If your going to make a habit of "under rodding" for big fish, its fine if you plan on killing them. Cause thats whats going to happen with a good number of them. There are a few "Stu Apts" out there who truley know how to do it, but when you have a whole community of fly fishrmen thinking, "this is what its all about" Well you end up finding schools of dorado hanging out under rafts of dead dorado.

Giving the fish a chance doesnt mean bringing a knife to a gunfight, it means catching the fish quickly and efficently so it doesnt expire on your line and can swim away with some strength left.

You can easily bend a 12w to breaking point on a 80# sail. And youll be just as big of a hero.

Just my $.02

[ALAN MAX]

First I'll say I'm no "Stu Apt" but who I am is someone that has the survival of the fish be it marlin, sailfish,striper,steelie,or shad my utmost concern. Can I ask why do you flyfish? Is it to haul the fish on deck to get the all inportant photo to show your buddys?
For me as I stated before, It's the moments of the strike, the cast, the anticipation before the take, in the case of marlin & sails the Explosion in first few seconds and the sound of your reel screaming as they strip you in to your backing, now thats way I Flyfish!
I guess if landing every fish is your goal? "Gear up". 12w, 14w, 100#shock "getrdone".
That just how I see it.

[Darian]

OK guys, it sounds like everyone is really on the same wave length just not verbally. Let's agree that we all try to land fish as quickly and with as little stress as possible within reason.

How about we get back to answering Scott's original question about tandem hook flies potentially hooking (wrapping :question: ) both jaws of a fish during the fight/strike.... :question: :question: I'd like to hear from some more of the experienced guys on this.... :D :D