ultimate trout subsurface fly collection

[Hairstacker]

Ok, we had the "ultimate trout dry fly collection" poll thread a little while back. Now how about one for nymphs, wet flies, streamers, etc.? In other words, if you were to pick your top 10 favorite trout subsurface flies for the California Sierras, what would they be?

What we're looking for here are flies that consistently slayed them. Or slayed them more often than the other flies you fished. Or flies you consistently turned to when things got serious. Well, you get the picture. Size(s) and colors of the flies would be helpful too.

You don't have to name 10, but if you want to, feel free. Perhaps our board statistician (jburge) might be willing to compile the results like he did last time? :D And if anyone wants to post a photo of the cool bottle opener welded to the front of their pickup or something like that, please don't hesitate to do so. :lol:

[jburge]

Ha! Hairstacker, I'm on it! You guys post the info, pix, and GPS coordinates of your honey holes (kidding!) and I'll put together the data.

And I can't name 10, just 'cause I haven't used 'em that much, but the ones that have worked for me are:

bead head prince nymph
gold ribbed hare's ear
pheasant tail nymph
bird's nest

John

[Tony P]

To many to really choose from. You have the classics like Pheasant Tail, Gold Rib Hare's Ear, Birds Nest, Zug Bug, & Ants.

Here are my top five go to nymphs.

1) Copper John
2) Fox's Beaded Poopah
3) Any of Mercer's Poxyback Stone Patterns
4) Mercer's Micro Mayfly
5) Burk's Bottom Rollers

Tony P

[Phil Synhorst]

Excellent flies John, they all work well. The Bead Head Prince is on the top of my list. The only other two that I have used successfully, and without hesitation are Woolly Buggers, and Zug Bugs. The Zug Bug used to be at the top of the list, it was the Skunk remover, trout just couldn't help themselves. Then the wonders of the Prince Nymph were discovered, I swear it hypnotizes trout(Brookies esp.).:unibrow:

[SHigSpeed]

I don't believe I have used 10 different subsurface in my short fly fishing tenure, however I do know that in lakes, my #1 go-to is a copper/brown leech (they style I tied for the lakes swap recently). Otherwise, again, princes and buggers make my list.

_SHig

[k.hanley]

okie dokie here you go Mike and crew..........

1. Damselfly nymph
2. Dragonfly nymph
3. Bird's Nest (tan)
4. Burk's Hunch Back Infrequens (sp?????)
5. Green Rock Worm
6-7. LaFontaine's Sparkle Pupa (tan, green)
8. Whitlock's Near Nuff Sculpin
9. AP Nymph (brown)
10. Stonefly (Black rubberlegs)

Cheers, Ken

[Rich Leonetti]

1. Fox pupa
2. copper john
3. prince nymph
4. san juan worm
5. hare's ear
6. black ap
7. birds nest
8. pheasant tail
9. sloan's mighty mite
10. Hogan's yuba pupa

Not necessarily in any order, except fox pupa definitely at the top...everything else is pretty close...

[JT]

1. Fox Poopah
2. Micro Mayfly
3. Drowned Adult Midge
4. Pheasant Tail
5. Rubber-Legged Stonefly Nymph
6. Hare's Ear
7. Clinger Nymph
8. Woolly Bugger
9. San Juan Worm
10. Damselfly Nymph

[jburge]

Sweet! I've got data already ;-) I'll give this a couple of weeks before the final tally. Sound OK to you guys?

John

[David Lee]

Now how about one for nymphs, wet flies, streamers, etc.? In other words, if you were to pick your top 10 favorite trout subsurface flies for the California Sierras, what would they be?


If we are going to include ALL California waters ........

#6 Dragonbugger (accounted for my largest Rainbow)

Black Rubberleg Stone #6-#10

Gray/White clouser #2-#6

My Cranky Sculpin #4-#6

Olive beaded crystal Bugger #6-#10

Scud hook Antron Ant #12-#16

Pheasant Tail #16-#18

Zug Bug #14-#18

San Juan Worm in Wine

Cal Bird's Bird's nest (If I could choose only ONE fly , this would be it . Tied on a #8 , 3x hook in gold , it makes a fine Stone . On a scud hook in Olive #10-#16 , it'll catch EVERYTHING . #6 , 3x long in Black for a BIG Stone nymph ...... you get the idea . Long or short , fat or thin ...... the most versitile design ever .)

David

[Hairstacker]

Sweet! I've got data already ;-) I'll give this a couple of weeks before the final tally. Sound OK to you guys?

John

John, sounds great, thanks!!

[mikel]

copper john - assorted colors and sizes
prince and prince derivatives (dark lord, psycho, etc)
PT's with and without bh, poxy back, etc
buggers - assorted colors/sizes
mercers golden stone
brassie
zebra midge
Pettis caddis pupa
Zug Bug
leeches in still water

hmmm, not much new in my list...guess I'm not as specific as most, but things change from day to day and water to water...-Mike

[Pound]

In general, not just the Sierra’s, in no particular order:

1. rubber legs - Brown / brown 6 - 8
2. Mercer micro may - olive - 16
3. FBPT - 16 - 18
4. Black AP - 14 - 18
5. Bird’s Nest – tan and Olive 14 - 16
6. Prince Nymph / Dark lord 14 - 16
7. Sunken Ant – Black deer hair - 16
8. Copper John – Red - 16
9. Fox Caddis Pupa - 14 - 16
10. Woolly - Black / purple

There is this other fly that I bought for a Fall River trip last summer that I have used on other waters since, and have had really good results. It looks like a PT (color and shape), but with wire and very short white/tan rubber legs. I bought it at the TFS, and can’t find it on their site…

[jim p]

1. Soft Hackle, PT
2. Black Martinez, soft hackle style collar
3. PT, BH or otherwise
4. Prince, BH or otherwise
5. Fox Poopah(s)
6. Muddler
7. Bitch Creek
8. Non-descript black stone (don't know the name)
9. Woolly

Got lots of other sub-surface flies but realized I hardly ever use them. Soft hackles seem to by my go-to. If not soft hackles it would have to be BH PT or Prince. I might have to start mixing it up a little.

[troutbm]

In no particular order.

Hares ear
pheasant tail
sparkle pupah
fox popah
a.p nymph(black)
RS2(can't beleive this hasn't made everyones list !)
Basic soft hackle in various colors
copper john(black)
brassie
prince nymph
black ant fished wet
and don't forget to try those dry fly's fished wet !!!!
I think I went over. Now of course each of these could easyily be broken down into several variations of each pattern.

[Xnjb707X]

My go to top 10 ..

1. Calbaties
2. PT Flashback
3. Fox Pupah
4. Caddis Rock Worm
5. WD40
6. Zebramidge
7. Copper John
8. Bird's Nest
9. Micro Mayfly
10. Hares Ear

[Mik]

I love it Hairstacker. I was wondering when the next list would be compiled. I think it would only take these 5 flies.

1. Pheasant Tail
2. Prince Nymph
3. Copper John
4. Wooly Bugger
5. Hairs Ear


Mik

[Willisbrow]

red copper john
micro mayfly
poxyback golden stone
fox caddis pupa
pheasant tail
wd40
zebra midge
wooly buggers
rubber legs

most of the time when im nymphing im using a 16 red copper john and a 16 micro may fly.

[reddog]

you guys are cheating using san juans, they're not even fair. But in my short experience pts, hairs ears, copper jons, zugs, and I'm sure a couple more of yours work outside CAalso.

[CODY]

Whats wrong with using a San Juan worm? Its an imitation of a naturally occuring organizism in the stream.:nod: Or does fishing one put us too close to bait guys?

[590Mike]

Its a good thing you mentioned TROUT or David Lee would have had the Dhalberg diver (6/0) on the top of that list.

Top 10
1 birds nest# 14
2 gold rib hares ear #14
3 wooly bugger #8
4 20 min stone #8
5 adams soft hackle #12
6 hunchback #16 any color
7 beadhead fox's poopa #14
8 micro may fly #18
9 hunchback drake #12
10 fuller lake special #12

[David Lee]

Its a good thing you mentioned TROUT or David Lee would have had the Dhalberg diver (6/0) on the top of that list.


Mike -

Not a 6/0 ...... a #10 stinger hook , the length of your little finger .

You would crap your waders if you saw some of the Trout I've raised with that fly ! Think Gold #2 Mepps , or a 1/4 Oz. Panther Martin ..... the Dahlberg works better .

David

[590Mike]

Mepps and Panther Martin ?Why not add Kastmaster 1/4 oz and a big fat rapalla? No wait !! The t-3 flatfish and a rooster tail dropper ! Ah memory lane
Any whooose I figured that dahlberg diver would get your attention.

[Hairstacker]

Mepps and Panther Martin ?Why not add Kastmaster 1/4 oz and a big fat rapalla? No wait !! The t-3 flatfish and a rooster tail dropper ! Ah memory lane
Any whooose I figured that dahlberg diver would get your attention.

Memory lane?

Don't forget the Bomber 301 and waterdogs, Shysters, and Creme purple worms for bass; Daredevil spoons for northern pike. And, actually, I always thought the smaller Kastmasters were much better for trout. :D

[Tony P]

Memory lane?

Don't forget the Bomber 301 and waterdogs, Shysters, and Creme purple worms for bass; Daredevil spoons for northern pike. And, actually, I always thought the smaller Kastmasters were much better for trout. :D

I know you love top-water so don't forget Jitterbugs & Hula Poppers\\:D/. Also for all you trout guys, do you remember the Super Duper :unibrow:?

Tony P

[Phil Synhorst]

This thread has taken an odd but fond and funny turn.8)

In the days before I learned to fly fish, and the first couple of years of questionable confidence, the Crippler was a go to lure. It was pretty much a no fail up at Silver and Caples.

[SHigSpeed]

Its a good thing you mentioned TROUT or David Lee would have had the Dhalberg diver (6/0) on the top of that list.

Top 10
1 birds nest# 14
2 gold rib hares ear #14
3 wooly bugger #8
4 20 min stone #8
5 adams soft hackle #12
6 hunchback #16 any color
7 beadhead fox's poopa #14
8 micro may fly #18
9 hunchback drake #12
10 fuller lake special #12

Being as how I fish Fuller so much, can you elaborate on the "special"? :)

_SHig

[590Mike]

[QUOTE=Tony P;60844]I know you love top-water so don't forget Jitterbugs & Hula Poppers\\:D/. Also for all you trout guys, do you remember the Super Duper :unibrow:?

Holy mackerel I forgot all about the super-duper it was a dandy, back in the day they sold for what $.89 to $1.19? But the hula popper and Jitterbug were big hits also. My dad was a big Mepps and Rooster tail guy. We probabally should quit talking like this we might be sending Bill in to a state of nostalgia.


Shig.. here the Fuller special,just don't tell anyone.
Its basically a #12
sparce marabou tail with the ends of the marbou pulled over for a shellback
the body is olive dubbing and a grizzly hackle. This is a used fly as I can't find the ones I tied a while back. I tie some in black also but can't find them. It must be time to clean the tying area. Andy Burk showed me a neat way to make it a dragon bugger with a little deer hair, but I haven't sat down to try it yet.


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p116/590mike/100_0640.jpg

[590Mike]

Oh boy daredevil spoons for steelhead and lake trout. We might as well bring up lunch while fishing... saltine crackers, vienna sausage and grape soda.

[Scott V]

[QUOTE=Tony P;60844]I know you love top-water so don't forget Jitterbugs & Hula Poppers\\:D/. Also for all you trout guys, do you remember the Super Duper :unibrow:?

Holy mackerel I forgot all about the super-duper it was a dandy, back in the day they sold for what $.89 to $1.19? But the hula popper and Jitterbug were big hits also. My dad was a big Mepps and Rooster tail guy. We probabally should quit talking like this we might be sending Bill in to a state of nostalgia.


Shig.. here the Fuller special,just don't tell anyone.
Its basically a #12
sparce marabou tail with the ends of the marbou pulled over for a shellback
the body is olive dubbing and a grizzly hackle. This is a used fly as I can't find the ones I tied a while back. I tie some in black also but can't find them. It must be time to clean the tying area. Andy Burk showed me a neat way to make it a dragon bugger with a little deer hair, but I haven't sat down to try it yet.


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p116/590mike/100_0640.jpg

What size tippet do I use for that little tag end on the eye?:D And does it have to point forward or can it point towards the back to help with the aerodynamics?

[590Mike]

danged redneck hillbilly yuppie bass fishin' reformist !! that not a tag.... it's a horn !!

[Scott V]

danged redneck hillbilly yuppie bass fishin' reformist !! that not a tag.... it's a horn !!

I don't care who your, that's funny, now tie some up for me and GIT_R_DONE!!!

[590Mike]

Scott I'll have plenty at the GBF annual picnic and one fly tourney are you and Mrs Scott coming up still?

[Scott V]

I'll be there for sure, but I doubt my wife will make it. She might come up for the picnic in the evening. I am hoping to take my rv up Friday but not sure there will be any space left for it.

If that is the fly you are going to use, I am sorry to say but you are going to lose. The dragonbugger will concur all. All hail the mighty dragonbugger. And yes that was a gauntlet you just felt hit you across the cheek.

[Hairstacker]

A horn . . . very clever. :lol:

[590Mike]

There's allways space for the spectators....bring on the dragonbugger but no powerbait

[590Mike]

Memory lane?

Don't forget the Bomber 301 and waterdogs, Shysters, and Creme purple worms for bass; Daredevil spoons for northern pike. And, actually, I always thought the smaller Kastmasters were much better for trout. :D


I can't remember the bomber, pupple worms for bass yea one of Craig Brawley's favorites

[Hairstacker]

I can't remember the bomber, pupple worms for bass yea one of Craig Brawley's favorites

Ah, the venerable wooden Bomber 301, my "go-to" bass plug waaay back when. Sadly, they started converting these to plastic in 1972 and the wooden ones are now considered collectors' items. They came in many different colors and patterns and the 301 (all white) and 304 (red head/white body) were my favorites. The Bomber was a floater/deep diver. . . and come to think of it . . . maybe I should be tying and fishing all-white Dahlberg Divers!?! :!: :lol:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/Sachlil/Bomber301.jpg

[jburge]

Geez, you guys like to challenge me, huh? Wanna see data? Wanna see analysis and reports? Well, here you go:

Flies:
144 entries (qualifying as real subsurface), and following a weird turn, 16 additional entries.

Contributors:
590mike
david lee
hairstacker
jburge
jim p
jt
k.hanley
mik
mikel
oldtroutbelly
phil synhorst
pound
reddog
scott v
shigspeed
tony p
troutbm
willisbrow
xnjb707x

Top Ten Results:
Note: My job is only to present the data, and not try and interpret what I think it means (sorry, slipped into job mentality). If the entry said "hare's ear" I kept that separate from "gold ribbed hare's ear." Or if it said "rubber legs," that was not counted the same as "rubber leg stonefly." You get the idea.

Ultimately, you'll have to interpret the results for yourself. Remember, looking at statistics is just like looking at a bikini--what it reveals is important, but what it conceals is vital ;-)

Ultimately, I could only come up with a "Top 9" instead of "Top 10," although I don't think it'd be hard from these results to create your own top 10 that will have big-time results.

--
Number 9 (all the one vote getter's)

20 minute stone
adams soft hackle
ants
basic soft hackle
bead head fox's poopah
bitch creek
black ant (fished wet)
black martinez soft hackle
black stonefly
burk's bottom rollers
burk's hunch back infrequens
caddis rock work
callibaetis
clinger nymph
clouser
dragonfly nymph
drowned adult midge
fox's beaded poopah
fuller lake special
green rock worm
hogan's yuba pupa
hunchback
hunchback drake
lafontaine's sparkle pupa
mercer's golden stone
mercer's poxyback stone
muddler
my cranky sculpin
olive beaded crystal bugger
pettis caddis pupa
pheasant tail soft hackle
poxyback golden stone
psycho
rs2
rubber-legged stonefly nymph
scud hook antron ant
sloan's mighty mite
sparkle pupah
sunken ant (black deer hair)
whitlock's near nuff sculpin

--
Number 8 (two votes each)

bead head pheasant tail
brassie
damselfly nymph
dark lord
dragonbugger
flashback pheasant tail
fox's caddis poopah
leech
mercer's micro mayfly
rubber legs
rubber leg stone
WD40

--
Number 7 (3 votes each)

bead head prince nymph
san juan worm
zebra midge

--
Number 6 (4 votes each)

ap nymph
gold ribbed hare's ear
micro mayfly

--
Number 5 (5 votes each)

fox's poopah
hare's ear
zug bug

--
Number 4 (7 votes each)

bird's nest
prince nymph

--
Number 3 (9 votes each)

copper john
woolly bugger

--
Number 2 (11 votes)

pheasant tail

--
Number 1

The REAL way to enjoy your fishing day: Saltine crackers, vienna sausage and grape soda.

For those interested in sizes, this is the summary of what was turned in. Listed by fly (alpha order) and size(s):

20 minute stone #8
adams soft hackle #12
ap nymph #14 - 18
bead head fox's poopah #14
bird's nest #14 - 16
bird's nest* #6 - 16 (see david lee's note below)
black rubberleg stone #6 - 10
clouser #2 - 6
copper john #16
dark lord #14 - 16
dragonbugger #6
flashback pheasant tail #16 - 18
fox's caddis poopah #14 - 16
fuller lake special #12
gold ribbed hare's ear #14
hunchback #16
hunchback drake #12
mercer's micro mayfly #16
micro mayfly #16 - 18
my cranky sculpin #4 - 6
olive beaded crystal bugger #6 - 10
pheasant tail #16 - 18
prince nymph #14 - 16
rubber legs #6 - 8
scud hook antron ant #12 - 16
sunken ant #black deer hair #16
woolly bugger #8
zug bug #14 - 18

--
If a specific color was mentioned here 'ya go:

ant (black)
ap nymph (brown, black)
bird's nest (tan, olive)
clouser (gray, white)
copper john (red, black)
fuller lake special (olive)
lafontaine's sparkle pupa (tan, green)
leech (brown, copper)
mercer's micro mayfly (olive)
rubber legs (brown)
san juan worm (wine)
woolly bugger (black, purple)

Additional comments and "bugs" that catch fish, but might get you to say, "Really?!", or, "Wow, I remember that!" or, "Are you serious?...":

bomber 301
creme purple worm
crippler
dahlberg
daredevil spoon
hula popper
jitterbug
kastmaster 1/4 oz
mepps #2 gold
panther martin 1/4 oz
rapala
rooster tail
shyster
super duper
t-3 flatfish
waterdog

Note from david lee: Cal Bird's Bird's nest (If I could choose only ONE fly, this would be it. Tied on a #8, 3x hook in gold, it makes a fine Stone. On a scud hook in Olive #10-#16, it'll catch EVERYTHING. #6, 3x long in Black for a BIG Stone nymph... you get the idea. Long or short, fat or thin... the most versatile design ever.)

Note from troutbm: and don't forget to try those dry fly's fished wet!!!!

Enjoy. And now, that whole bourbon thread is looking suspiciously like it's in need of data collection...

John

[Mik]

impressive list. Thanks for all your time spent.

[Hairstacker]

John, wow, absolutely outstanding job summarizing all the data into very meaningful and useful categories -- not only a ranking of recommendations but also summaries by suggested sizes and colors! \\:D/ I have no doubt your summary will be re-visited time and again by those double-checking the contents of their fly boxes or looking for something different to try. Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to put all that together for all of us. =D>=D>=D>=D>=D>