Simon's/Rio's Spey Line Recommendations for Spey Rods

[Grampa Spey]

The link below will take you to Simon's 2009 Rio Spey Line Recommendations:

http://www.rioproducts.com/photos/file/2009%20Spey%20line%20recs.pdf

Besides Simon's personal incredible work to get to these recommendations. The recommendations in the past have included working with people like Gary Anderson and Bob Meiser to match Rio lines to their rods.

I see two interesting things in the 2009 recommendations:

1. Simon in a footnote re the AFS heads notes that with high winds and big flies, there is no problem of going up to the next size AFS head. I would add that for many of us who sink in the river when wading, one size up with the AFS heads works better. Simon's foot note: "Please note: The column marked 'AFS" is what I think is the right Scandinavian Shooting Head for the rod. Bear in mind that when casting this
type of line the rod is meant to flex and be cast off the tip. With any rod listed here you can certainly step up one size of AFS and not affect the
performance - in fact this would be wise if you were casting big flies, or had a tough wind to cope with."

2. Simon is still recommending a Skagit Cheater for some rods over 12' 6" and most rods over 13'. This seems to fly into the face of the Skagit Guys recommending the newer shorter Skagit heads for rods over 13'. I don't recall them recommending Skagit Cheaters for the longer and heavier rods. With my Sage Z7136 and 7141, the addition of a 5' Cheater makes casting easier, more predictable, and more enjoyable. I have a hunch, the Short Skagits will be great for the rods in the 12'6" to 12'11" range and not that great for most of us with the longer rods.

Kudos again to Simon for coming out with this quide line of matching Rio's Spey Lines to Spey rods.

[Don Powell]

Excellent casters like Simon and Tim Rajeff often favor lighter lines (read, "line speed") over the easier to cast heavier option.
Anyone who "fishes" recognizes there are windy days when to fish you better move up a line weight designation.
And, it depends on what kind of fly you are fishing...light, narrow profile wet flies cast great with AFS and line speed lines and dumb-bell eyes with a five inch burly profile flies cast better with heavier, or better yet, Skagit lines...

Thanks Dave, I also applaud Simon's efforts to accommodate each and every fisher's needs!

Don

[Grampa Spey]

"Don, thanks for the excellent summary of why we need different lines."


Excellent casters like Simon and Tim Rajeff often favor lighter lines (read, "line speed") over the easier to cast heavier option.
Anyone who "fishes" recognizes there are windy days when to fish you better move up a line weight designation. And, it depends on what kind of fly you are fishing...light, narrow profile wet flies cast great with AFS and line speed lines and dumb-bell eyes with a five inch burly profile flies cast better with heavier, or better yet, Skagit lines...

Thanks Dave, I also applaud Simon's efforts to accommodate each and every fisher's needs!

"Don, when I got into Spey casting, Simon had not come out with his charts. The miss matches were horrible. Then, Simon came out with his first chart to give us some ball park guideline for best matches. He listened, when many of us asked him to work with Bob Meiser and Gary Anderson since a lot of their rods were in the West Coast."

Bill Kiene and I discussed the miss matches last week and wondered how many spey rods ended up in closets or sold EBay or sites like this. Later that same day, an excellent Spey Caster told me about how one of his rods ended up in a closet and unused for years. Now that same caster is slicing/splicing and creating his own lines for his rods. That rod is now out of the closet.

Jeff Putnam summed up the choices of the many lines and types we have for two handed rods last fall, "This is no reason to suffer or be disappointed in a matchup of a line with a two handed rod. Do your research and try different lines. If a line doesn't work, it is probably a miss match for the caster and rod. Forget it and try another line until it works"

Don

[reel world]

Hi there,

I have yet to read, or find somewhere that the "Skagit Guys" recommend Skagit Shorts for rods over 13' long. I must be missing out on somthin' here, as I have thought that the discussion revolved around rods in the 11' to 12'.9" length. Perhaps Grandpa Spey could reveal his information. (Maybe a Metolious @ a little over 13' is to blame)?!?!

[Fats]

Hi there,

I have yet to read, or find somewhere that the "Skagit Guys" recommend Skagit Shorts for rods over 13' long. I must be missing out on somthin' here, as I have thought that the discussion revolved around rods in the 11' to 12'.9" length. Perhaps Grandpa Spey could reveal his information. (Maybe a Metolious @ a little over 13' is to blame)?!?!

Mike McClune was talking about it during his presentation on the American in January. The 3 to 3.5 ratio is arbitrary. (It's a good place to start, but isn't carved into stone) It really comes down to personal preference and the specifics of your casting stroke. It also depends on the tips you are using. He was mentioning that he was getting a lot closer to a 2.5 to 2.8 ratio for his personal preference.

What casts good on your rod?

(Disclaimer: I'm still trying to figure this stuff out myself! I'm just passing on what I heard.)

[Don Powell]

My understanding is that the Skagit shorts are just that- short heads ~20' to be used optimally on "short" (less than 13') rods.
Experience teaches that if you use too short a head on a longer rod, you are going to "pull" your anchor out of the water and screw up your cast.
I really like the Airflo Compact Skagit heads (23-27') on 12'6" to 14+' rods!
There are longer Skagit heads, ie. the SA 8 wt which has a 31' head and is the recommended Skagit choice by Kerry Burkheimer for his 14' 2" 4 piece (see Kerry's website- Grain Windows).

My $0.02

Don

[Terry Thomas]

If you want to know about fly line tapers, both single and double hand, pick up a copy of Al Buhr's book, How to Design Fly Lines. He talks about every fly line taper that you could ever imagine. The last section of the book also discusses how to splice lines together. A great read!
Terry