What are half pounders ? MR COLEVO PLEASE

[speyfool]

Sorry I cant help you, but I just wanted to affirm that the numerous scientific papers I have read state that steelhead and rainbows (before it is time to head out to salt) are no different. Some rainbows just decide to head out to sea (or the delta) and others dont, it is the decision to go to salt (and and get somewhat there) that makes them a steelhead, not biology.

I'm not a biologist. Neither am I as educated on steelhead as I'd like to be. However, I've read that the rainbows don't just one day make a decision to go to salt. It is in their genetics. And they are predisposed to do so.

Did I misunderstand or are you saying otherwise?


I hope I'm not derailing this thread Carl. Just trying to get the facts straight in my head.

[Mike R]

Speyfool,
Before this one heads for the ditch, the scientific literature says that there is no genetic difference between a trout and steelhead. There is no way to predict if a juvenile will emigrate to the salt or stay in the creek.

Mike

[huntindog]

....an 8 oz. cheeseburger or steak...

or the scientific description of a half pounder is a steelhead that has spent a short period of time, usually a summer, in the ocean or estuary then returns to the river as a sexually immature fish.

[Covelo]

Here is a link to a previous discussion with good info on what a half pounder is. I agree with the comments that this is a very misused term. If you are catching 8-12 in dinks on the American, they are not half pounders. Half pounders are usually 13-15 inches, immature, and have been to the salt. On the Eel River, these fish entered the system in Sept when the river was low and clear. Many fly fishermen used to target them years ago down near Fortuna and at the mouth of the Van Duezen.

I do not fish the American much for steelhead, but it is hard to believe that there are no true half pounders considering the high percentage of Eel River stock and that the half pounder life cycle is so prevalent in the Eel River.

http://www.kiene.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=2873&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=8973c3cb648b978168e0b4ef6baac4f0

[speyfool]

Speyfool,
Before this one heads for the ditch, the scientific literature says that there is no genetic difference between a trout and steelhead. There is no way to predict if a juvenile will emigrate to the salt or stay in the creek.

Mike

Thanks for the clarification. I guess the material that I read was incorrect. All this time I thought that steelhead were predisposed to go to the ocean and had no say in the matter.

[sierrapac]

While getting info for an article on the American River Steelhead, I interviewed the Steelhead fisheries biologist for DFG Division II (I think his last name was Henley) and he explained that the AR does not have what would be truly defined as "Half Pounders". The definition of "Half Pounders" is fish that have been out to sea or in the estuaries for about two years and have returned to the river system. These fish are generally sexually immature. They are indigenous to the North Coast Rivers but not the AR. What we mistakenly call "Half Pounders" are just smolts that hang around for a couple of years before going to the ocean. It is believed that they move around between the Feather, Sac, AR, Mok. SJ etc. Some venture into the saltier environment of the SF Bay and delta as can be attested by the sea lice that sometimes hitch a ride.

[Covelo]

I do not know who you spoke with but a fish that spends 2 years in the salt is going to be way larger than 13-15 in. Many adult steelhead only spend 2 years in the salt. Read the thread that I included the link to in my first post. There is a lot of info there from people with far more knowledge on the biology of steelhead. As I stated above, it is hard to believe that there are no true half pounders in the American considering the heavy influence from the Eel River introductions and the known presence of the half pounder life cycle on the Eel River.

[huntindog]

While getting info for an article on the American River Steelhead, I interviewed the Steelhead fisheries biologist for DFG Division II (I think his last name was Henley) and he explained that the AR does not have what would be truly defined as "Half Pounders". The definition of "Half Pounders" is fish that have been out to sea or in the estuaries for about two years and have returned to the river system. These fish are generally sexually immature. They are indigenous to the North Coast Rivers but not the AR. What we mistakenly call "Half Pounders" are just smolts that hang around for a couple of years before going to the ocean. It is believed that they move around between the Feather, Sac, AR, Mok. SJ etc. Some venture into the saltier environment of the SF Bay and delta as can be attested by the sea lice that sometimes hitch a ride.


two or three months not two years...a two year old steelhead would be an adult fish.

[Rick J]

I am pretty sure that half-pounders go out in the winter/spring and come in the following fall. They may get out a bit or even stay more in the estuaries but don't follow the typical steelhead migration pattern

[jbird]

Speyfool,
Before this one heads for the ditch, the scientific literature says that there is no genetic difference between a trout and steelhead. There is no way to predict if a juvenile will emigrate to the salt or stay in the creek.

Mike


So is this theory suggesting that a rainbow trout reared in a hatchery...say, the same strain they release into put and take lakes and streams...could suddenly decide to make a pilgrimage to the sea and become a steelhead?

The instinct to migrate to the ocean is jsut that, an instinct built into a species.

[Mike R]

DPLee,
Thanks for posting that. That is what a half-pounder is.

I can hear it now: "Yeah But, Yeah But, Yeah But, Yeah But...."

See ya, Mike

[stevie steelhead]

Whenever I catch a steelhead smaller than 20 inches, my fishing buddies have been calling them "half-pounders", and I have been claiming that over 15 inches are adults.
I think that now I will bet them and use this thread to win big!

[Covelo]

Carl -- Covelo is a small town in Mendocino Co so no slight to me. Great summer run fishing there in May.

The three rivers that have native half pounder runs are the Eel, Trinity/Klamath, and the Mad, though there was some questions about the Mad historically since Eel River stock was also introduced through the Mad River Hatchery. The Smith does not have a half pounder run which is odd since they occur north and south of it. The Russian also is not known to half a half pounder component though it would be curious to know if some are being caught there now since Eel River fish are drawn up the Russian due to the Lake Pillsbury water that is pumped up and over the hill. Steelhead with clips from the Van Arsdale hatchery have been recorded in the Russian River in the past.

Genetic studies have shown that steelhead are more related to the in basin resident trout than they are to out of basin steelhead. This shows that there is more gene flow with the trout than from out of basin strays. So trout and steelhead are the same species basically with different life histories.

[wjorg]

So what makes all this information true? Who swims with the so called "half pounders" from birth to death. What makes a percentage of fish followed with transmitters representative of a vast diversity within genus/species? Humans view and classify species based on reductionist viewpoints, not accumulation of the totality of each individual within the focus group. Fish are so difficult for us to follow how can we ensure accuracy to the theories presented? Im just curious, not argumentative. I prefer the scientific method.
When I fish for mountain landlocked trout, I find big head little body fish......adults with small bodies because of food restriction. When I fight a 12" fish that puts a bend or two in my 8wt....and has a big a** mouth for its body, along with dime chrome scales 35 miles plus up a river system......that to me is a fish that was hanging in or near the salt or brackish water.....thats a halfpounder to me.

[Covelo]

wjorg -- I do not know how the research was conducted. References were supplied (Snyder 1925, Kesner and Barnhart 1972, Everest 1973, Barnhart 1986) so you should be able to investigate further.


When I fish for mountain landlocked trout, I find big head little body fish......adults with small bodies because of food restriction. When I fight a 12" fish that puts a bend or two in my 8wt....and has a big a** mouth for its body, along with dime chrome scales 35 miles plus up a river system......that to me is a fish that was hanging in or near the salt or brackish water.....thats a halfpounder to me.

I doubt that was the type of scientific method employed!

[matt johnson]

Here is an example of a 1/2 pounder:

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee281/ozziebooboo/halfpounder.jpg

Sorry, I can't tell you where it was caught! Matt

[Fats]

So what makes all this information true? Who swims with the so called "half pounders" from birth to death. What makes a percentage of fish followed with transmitters representative of a vast diversity within genus/species? Humans view and classify species based on reductionist viewpoints, not accumulation of the totality of each individual within the focus group. Fish are so difficult for us to follow how can we ensure accuracy to the theories presented? Im just curious, not argumentative. I prefer the scientific method.
When I fish for mountain landlocked trout, I find big head little body fish......adults with small bodies because of food restriction. When I fight a 12" fish that puts a bend or two in my 8wt....and has a big a** mouth for its body, along with dime chrome scales 35 miles plus up a river system......that to me is a fish that was hanging in or near the salt or brackish water.....thats a halfpounder to me.

Why does it really matter? If you catch an 18 " rainbow that stayed in the stream, it is going to be just as big as the 18" 1/2 pounder that got salty for a bit. Either way... nice fish!

[huntindog]

The problem is affectingly referred to by some as the O. mysiss conundrum.

DP Lee


The O. mykiss conundrum I am facing is where to go catch one this weekend...i have a spot in mind...