Howe Avenue Theft 12/30/08

[Kelly Maher]

I wanted to give everyone a heads up...My 2007 Expedition EL and brand new Riverman BoatWorks powder coated trailer (locked to hitch)were stolen Tuesday at Howe Avenue...It appears that they watched us from the bushes and broke in shortly after....Any rate, we got off the water at 4:00 and could obviously see both my vehicle as well as my trailer were gone as we floated around the corner from afar...They spent about 15K on my credit cars as well as my wallet was hidden inside the console. There was purposely very little in the car and nothing in view.

The Parks Department was awesome as Randy and Jane brought the Park's maintenance trailer and we loaded my 14' pontoon boat onto it and they took it to their yard. I came back to Sacrameto the next day and picked up my boat. I had trouble with the reporting as the Sheriff, City, and CHP had a dispute over who's jurisdiction in what is as it is a county park in city limits. Finally, CHP took the report, but then decided later that night to give it back to city, it was therefore not reported stolen for about 24 hours!

A couple of things:
1) The car was returned yesterday with two people in custody and a third that got away by jumping 35 feet into the river somewhere near Sacramento. The car is stripped and nearly totaled.
2) The trailer is still missing and is very distinct as it is powder coated, has low 24" mesh sides, says" Riverman Boatworks" on three sides, and has a rear "roller" which places the pontoon up on top of almost white butcher block type landings that slice into mesh side posts.
3) A two-tone Simms wading jacket (brown/grey) was inside my vehicle, but it is not mine, so it is obviously stolen and I would like to return it.

I just wanted to post this for information, so don't feel a need to tell me "how badly this sucks", etc.
All the best for the New Year and I am relieved this happened in 2008! Tight Lines, Kelly Maher.

[STEELIES/26c3]

This problem has escalated severely in the past year.

It used to be that Rossmoor, El Manto, Olive Access were the three to avoid.

Now, it is pretty much ANY access to the AR which is unsafe.

I know most of the county rangers and I'm impressed by the vigilance of only two of them and one is the superintendent who unfortunately is not in the field much these days.

I have been hit twice in 6 weeks and my only losses were:

break in #1 (cigarettes)
break in #2 (battery charger for cell phone)

I have been taking it upon myself to find and cripple the perpetrators.

I'm glad you got your rig back and that 2 were/are in custody.
Unfortunately, for every 1 caught, there are 10 more on the loose.

Heaven help us both when I find one of these dogs for I'll value his life less than that of a squawfish.

M

[Terry Thomas]

Kelly,
Sorry to hear about the loss of your equipment. With econimic times, I don't see things getting better from a safety point. I will say that I have seen more patrol on the parkway than I ever have. Last Saturday at Watt Ave. I saw two city officers on motorcycles come by while we were rigging up and shortly after a parkway officer come by. When we were leaving, @2 p.m. there were two vehicles screwing around trying to test their 4wd in the rocks under the bridge and up the road. One of them started to do "brodies" under the bridge, throwing rocks all over! At the same time a white pickup came down the parkway road...red and blue lights flashed and had the guy out of the vehicle in short time. Within ten minutes there were two other backup parkway officers on scene to back up the activity. They can't can't get all of the "screw-ups", but every once in a while they do get lucky.
Terry

[speyfool]

I know you didn't necessarily need to hear a "sorry". But man, I cant help it. That is horrible. This is unfortunately one of the biggest reasons I don't go to the American that often. And when I do, I'm careful to park in a neighborhood where it is hopefully less likely to be a victim. Unfortunately, if you are towing a boat, this isn't really an option. :(

[Fats]

I was very aware of all the "eyes" that were watching my wife and I rig up at Howe Ave the other day... It made me un-easy to say the least. I tend to keep way to much crap in my truck anyway. I'm going to try to learn from your mistake. I'm glad they caught two of the SOB's that were involved... hopefully the insurance takes care of you.

Good luck!

[Dustin Revel]

hopefully the third guy hit his head on a rock on the way down

[mr. 3 wt.]

. This is unfortunately one of the biggest reasons I don't go to the American that often. :(


Me too! Maybe a sting operation should be setup or something. It wouldn't take long for word to get out after a few scumbags get apprehended.

I guess I could leave my dogs in the cab (one is a pitbull) even though they are super friendly but the scumbags don't know that.

[Pez]

The problem is that this scam bugs are back on the street within a few days. They do not fear the law and that is why they are repeat offenders. We all know what they deserve!!!. Word of mouth works wonders, and if several of these guys got a good dose "of the right medicine", it wouldn't take long before they left somebody's else property alone. Guarantee!!!
The only way to correct this problems is through "sting operations". How many are done and how efective are they? These are questions I would like to know.I used to fish the american twice a week, nowdays cero!!. The big loosers.....Sac businesses.

[wjorg]

.....and people give Islamic law a hard time for suggesting things like cutting off thieves hands...


Im telling you, plant a dummy car and imprint Louisville Slugger backwards on someones forehead........

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Sorry for your lose Kelly..........that is very upsetting to hear.

We have had this same problem for the 40+ years I have been involved in fishing tackle sales on the Lower American River.

We have tried to think of all kinds of precaution we can all take to keep from having these terrible occurances.

I actually had my 'almost new' Ford Explorer stole right from the parking lot at the shop while I was working, some years back.

[FRSam]

It really is a problem...I got cleaned out up in Oregon when I took off on a Mt biking trip around one of the lakes off the Cascade HW. I'm sure we were being watched as we took off for the ride - when we got back four hrs later they'd cleaned out my 4-runner. All my camping gear, fly rods, tackle, wallet - hell they even took my prescription eye glasses.

I just picked up a new Expedition the other day and can't help but think about theft now - it's a shame you're so vulnerable at these boat ramps - once you're gone you're fair game.

I like the "imprint Louisville Slugger backwards on someone’s forehead" idea - I'll be happy to donate the bats...

[stevie steelhead]

It's happenned to me, and probably everyone who reads this board has had it happen to them or know someone who had their car ripped off.
My new plan is to never leave anything valuable in the truck, especially wallets, credit cards, keys, etc.
I also do not lock the truck, because they will break the windows!
The problem will be if you are on an extended trip and have valuable equipment in the vehicle.
As most of you know, the main pathology is methamphetamine. The meth addict will steal anything to sell for his drugs. They usually work in pairs or small groups, and avoid confrontation. And they are everywhere!
Maybe some smart designer/tinkerer fisherman on this board can come up with a way of locking up fishing gear, rods, etc. Does something already exist?
I would caution using vigilante violence against this problem, they are often armed.

[amoeba]

well:

Just about all I can add to this discussion is to leave nothing in your vehicle - truck or car - anywhere, including the trunk; as mine was broken into a few years ago and cleaned out; and other than being parked along a river - there was no visible indication of valuables (other than perhaps I was being watched). It wasn't on the American either. I've heard of these crimes everywhere - lower Sac, upper Sac, American, Feather, Yuba, Pitt, McCloud.
Nothing is "safe"

Maybe one other thing; police/sheriff response in my case was as lukewarm to my loss (~$1,000+) as they were disorganized to yours - actually none at all - I felt they were trying to get me not to file a report so as to reduce their reported crime rate.
Never got a thing back. And I'm gonna disagree with the story they fed you on "turf war" or whatever the line was; gimme a break - like they don't get these calls on a weekly basis? They just didn't care, or don't have the resources to care.

Although more patrol and prevention would be better, I am 100% certain that the authorities (police/sheriff) do not follow up at all; it's not that they don't care - it's more that the little resources they have are spent on serious crimes in progress (murder, rape, gun injuries) and not much on anything else. They may increase visibility for a few days after a crime spree, but it pretty much returns to normal after that.

[Dustin Revel]

thats a great idea wjorg!! instate sharia law, but i think i prefer the bat method.
I'm thinking about building a small safe to bolt down to my truck bed just big enough to fit my new spey rod when broken down.

[wjorg]

Or here's the San Francisco Mission Street trick. Years ago when I took the bus there were big scary guys that would beat the living crap out of someone let alone take their money/possessions. Ive seen innocent peoples faces smashed in for nothing. I was taught a "delayed self defense."
I never did it but here's the trick. Those guys smoked weed. So you carried around a little baggie with some weed laced with something fatal. You get jacked, they get whacked.

Who knows a chemist that can make a bunch of white powder that will kill when snorted or smoked?

Leave the little baggies laying around the rig when you leave and theyll stop at the drugs......no need to steal your stuff.......

By the way, I usually am a caring human being.....

If we legalized drugs already these folks would have a supervised place to get(cheaply) and do these drugs until they took their genes out of the human breeding pool......

[590Mike]

Phil S posted a message on this after my post on being broken into. So Phil will more likely post also. I have contacted a couple Chamber of Commerce offices in the area, at first they were wondering why I called them. After explaining that some fishermen won't go to certain rivers becase of the breakins. The American being one of them, and a group of businesses had a stronger voice, she understood.

This month is when most chambers induct new board and officers. So now is the time to start calling and asking them to help by contacting the Law enforcment rep and County Supervisor who usually attend the lunches. Senator Dave Cox and Assemblyman Roger Neilo usually have representatives there also.

Now is the time to call and where we really need to bring pressure is from out of town members.

Still the baseball bat therapy sounds good, the problem is now a days protecting ones property isn't a priority is this political atmosphere.

[shawn kempkes]

[QUOTE=Carl BlackIedge;54228]Hey gang,

I have another 2 cents to throw into the pot. Have you seen those portable Mexican taco wagons that sell Mexican food? Well convert a few of those into Donut trucks and park them at the popular parking places along the River. Problem solved. Then we would have more Cops parked there then fisherman!

Carl donut shops are so 1980's. Now they all hang out at starbucks. I was at one the other day in Sequim and I think the whole police force was there along with a couple of state troopers.

[wjorg]

Who are the people to call(Local, regional officials) and say I wont fish, or go eat in restaurants or stay in hotels, and will say bad things about their town to everyone I know until they hang theives from the public square?

[STEELIES/26c3]

"Now after all this humorous stuff being said... they have 10 cars and 30 cops stage a sting operation on a few old toothless wrinkled ass hookers, who after being caught and spend 4 hours in jail or back out doing the same thing again! Maybe we do need to take the law into our own hands for a weekend? The best way to keep a crook out of the back yard is to hang one in the front yard. American Justice."

I LIKE YOUR STYLE CARL!

After 6 hours of fishing... I went 'hunting' in the vicinity of Sarah Ct. again... no bad guys around except myself.
MARK

[Phil Synhorst]

Wjorg, I think Mike's suggestion about the chamber of commerce(s), is a good place to start, for locals and maybe even more so for those who choose to drive an hour or two to come here to fish. With the economy the way it is, a collective of business people seeing more money going away because of specific crime can put pressure on law enforcement.

Unfortunately as Bill said, this has been a problem for decades. We will never rid ourselves of crime, but I think this problem can be minimized. The county Park Rangers and the Sheriffs Department have separate and joint sting operations to try and address the issue, but there is a lot of parkway, and too few of them.

If anyone is interested, you can get in touch with the supervisor for the Park Rangers. His name is John Havicon, email is haviconj@saccounty.net, he can put you on the list to get updates of problem areas etc.

Good luck, good fishing, and be safe.

[flounder]

I'm new to fly fishing, but kind of experienced in policy/government so here is my somewhat unqualified/qualified two cents for all its worth. Talking to the Chamber is very a good idea as most Chambers have political juice. That stated, it would probably be helpful to tell them what you want specifically rather than just register a complaint. Also if it is based around increased resources like increased foot patrol, it would be helpful to tell them how to increase the funding.

So that stated here is an idea. How bout if the park fees that are collected for a designated park be used to support that particular park and the surrounding area. I'm pretty sure that the park fees that are currently collected are redistributed throughout the entire park system (in the State system). Inasmuch, fees that are currently collected in Sacramento may be used to fund parks in San Diego. The regionalization of fees would essentially make dollars collected in Sacramento be used in Sacramento.

There are some ups and downs to the proposal, but its a more concrete starting point. . . or we can just set up a trap and bash people with baseball bats. That works too!
;)

[STEELIES/26c3]

The problem with that is...

aside from Nimbus Basin and above (managed and policed by CA State Parks Dept.) the American River Parkway is under the sole jurisdiction of Sacramento County Parks and Rec.

The parkway is relatively huge with many access points.

Fees collected from day use and annual passes are distributed throughout the entire parkway and not allocated to one access (ie; Howe AVE, Watt AVE or Sarah CT). Furthermore, the fee money is divided between salaries for staff, operations, and maintenance not just law enforcement.

I will take the higher road and communicate with individuals and agencies who need to hear the voice of concern and I would encourage everyone else who uses the parkway to follow suit.

I have spoken with neighbors in the area where I was vandalized. I think a neighborhood watch program (with enthused neighbors and signs) would be helpful.

I still wish to take the lower road also and find/beat to a pulp these F$#@%^$ but the problem with that is it seriously cuts in to my fishing time...

Speak and be heard. Hit and be felt.
M

[wjorg]

Lets set up a day where we can all call the same several people(park/rec&chamber of commerce).

If one person calls every 5 days for 10 years they say "forget about it"

if 50 people call once a week for 5 weeks that will make more of an impact.....


Call the local mayors office, ive had incredible success with that in Frisco.

Call the Terminator, maybe hell come beat people up! "Its not a tumor!"

[David Lee]

Great subject .

Having spent 100+ days a year out there for about 6 years straight , you get to see some funny stuff . Never been broken in to , though .

Had a guy call my Wife some nasty stuff one day (for NO reason ...) - I offered to take his teeth out and he quickly backed-down and pointed out there was a cop in the parking lot - I engaged the cop , the cop said to get lost (not quite those works ...) -

Had a dude masturbate in front of my Wife from across the river (I would have KILLED that m*^&%$^%#ker if I would have seen him ....) -

Had a gang shout racial slurs and posture to P.M. and myself @ the Paradise parking lot one day , we almost had to fight our way out (15 or 20 to 2 , great odds ?) -

Found needles used to shoot dope on my beach -

Seen lots of kids breaking bottles while park and rec were out writing tickets for Dogs off leashes -

Had a guy across the river (150 feet away)threaten to kill me for fishing in HIS water -

Watched a kid light a porta-potty on fire -

Had a close friend tell me of being attacked by 4 twenty-something dudes , they tried to tackle him into 50-degree water for the fun of it -

The above are just a few of the things I've seen .....

Honestly , I think it's going to take a teen girl being raped/murdered out there to get the law and the city to pull their heads out . When I was fishing out there a lot , I knew of at least 8 older guys who were packing handguns and were ready to use them (including several ex-cops) .

I remember , in my 20's ..... we used to raft/drink/party a lot on the A. - we NEVER harrassed folks , littered , or flipped anyone any shit - I don't recall seeing much of that stuff back then .

I also believe that one has the RIGHT to go outdoors and be unmolested . If a 'bad guy' gets zapped ..... I doubt I'd lose any sleep over it .

I personally would NOT think twice about dealing with vermin harshly - my life is worth more than theirs .

Simple as that .

David

David

[wjorg]

I dont want to shoot anyone(ever) and my 6" Colt .44 takes too long to pull out of my waders.

Problem with using a tazer in the river is you might get shocked too!

Great stories David! I like the one about the guy being tackled just for the fun of it.

By the way....there have been girls sexually assaulted at the park to get to the log hole. There is a freaking kids soccer park there. All they do is post posters.

What are these "sting" operations they have been doing? Ive got a good eye for crime and cops and I havent seen squat.

[David Lee]

Great stories David! I like the one about the guy being tackled just for the fun of it.


Yeah .... my old 'Shad-buddy' Ken - great guy , very quiet and a nice fellow .

He was fishing the sandspit @ Paradise one day in early March .

There were 4 nipple-ring dudes drinking/chattering on the bluff ...... three kept saying to #4 -" Dude , just DO IT" !

#4 ambles out into the water (no waders , right ?) - Ken stops fishing , and watches the guy walk up .... Dude goes to tackle/slam Ken into the drink (remember , this is MARCH - water is around 50 degrees , lots of snags in the slot that WILL drown you if you bite it) .

Ken windmills the dude as dude goes to grab him - dude falls in the water next to Ken . The dude actually goes to make another pass at Ken ?!!?? This time , Ken grabs the dude and slams him down good .

Ken then runs to the bank , looks around , and picks up an empty 40 Oz. bottle - He tells the kid he's gonna crack his head if he tries again (Ken is more than a little frightened at this point , wouldn't you be ?)-

All 4 guys start LAUGHING - they say they are just 'playing' . Ken left the area pretty quickly .

The point I'm trying to make in relating this story ?

If someone , ANYONE , is too stupid to think things through and take chances w/ YOUR life ..... screw 'em , period . I hate violence but you have the RIGHT to protect yourself !

As part of my usual kit , I carry a BIG Buck sheath knife . I wear it on my pack-strap where it is visible to anyone to see . It isn't there to intimidate anyone , or for show .... it is a tool , not a sign of wanting to be a 'bad-ass' .

Does it help discourage vermin from messin' w/ me ?? Perhaps .

Would I WANT to use it on another human ?? HELL , NO !!

Would I hesitate to use it to protect myself/my Wife/my fishing partner IF THE SITUATION CALLED FOR IT ??

No . I wouldn't think twice .

Having your ride broken-into is a bad thing . Hopefully .... insurance will cover most of the missing stuff . Your LIFE is precious , and cannot be replaced . A very personal call to make , isn't it ??

David

[mr. 3 wt.]

Every situation is gonna be different. One must evaluate quickly in his mind , is it worth it. Look around and take notice of your surroundings. A nice sized (baseball bat sized) stick strategically placed near where your fishing could be good. Big gorilla sized friends are good. A cool rational thinking mind is real good. I for one, am not gonna spend the rest of my life behind bars cause of some scumbag. So, you need to watch CSI diligently so you can get the info needed so you don't get caught when you dispose of this scumbag and the case is closed as a fishing accident!

[Ed Wahl]

I've been reading this thread from day one. This thread has been around in different guises for years, but the problem just doesn't go away.
I've got an idea.
It does NOT involve violence.
It does involve digi cams and cel phones.
It will take some planning.
It will take some commitments.
It will not be talked about on this board. ( liability issues for Bill, we go to emails and phone calls)

I'm willing to commit some time, and if the 2 posters I trust on this thread(I think you know who you are) will also commit then we can do something.

You board members who are interested in being proactive send me an email with your real name. I'll get back to you when I've got an idea of the amount of interest in this.

I think there will be one or two coffee shop meetings while we flesh this out.

No BS, this is for real.

My email is on my profile.

Ed

[Terry Thomas]

This has been a long and informative thread. There are many individuals that read the posts on this board. I had two calls at the shop today wanting to know if it is safe to go and fish the American River. I fished yesterday at Rossmore and Sunrise. When I drove into the Rossmore area I saw a park ranger leaving. I fished for @two hours and when I left I saw a different park ranger come by. I can tell you that I have never seen so much patrol as I have seen recently. I am not going to change my fishing habits. Then again, I try to never leave anything in my rig. No, I didn't have any grabs, however, I did talk to a "regular" who fishes gear and he said he had a good one on earlier in the day.

[wjorg]

It isnt safe to fish on the American River.

Ive had a tweaker who I could have broken in half if he didnt shank me with his knife first, throw a log that weighed as much as he did in the run, and then gesticulate and posture at me to come over and do something about it.

A few lucky long casts at his face made him think twice about it but I would sure hate to have him accost me when I'm immobilized changing my waders or something...

I feel more comfortable with the locals on some Nor Cal rivers who will burn your rig if you are not respectful to them. At least I know a smile, wave, or a beer or a cigarette will go a long way. The freaks we have on the A dont eat, sleep and are only motivated by serotonin and dopamine rushes they get from meth, or getting money to get more meth. Trust me, Im addicted to Steelhead and its just about the same way......

[Phil Synhorst]

No one else interested in giving an ear to Ed's idea????

[David Lee]

Phil -

Don't lose any sleep . Folks are given to do ( or NOT DO ) what they want to do .

There's three of us - let's follow thru on the plan -

Bad guys , eat $^!t !!!

EDIT - The stuff above ISN'T directed at anyone here -

David

[STEELIES/26c3]

I'M IN

And as this is a PUBLIC board... it is wise to keep specifics between PM's.

I do know the Sacramento County Park's new operation in conjunction with the FBI.

I'm not at liberty to discuss it here and my doing so would undermine its effectiveness.

I'll contact David soon.

Mark

(916) 764-5569
(916) 489-4963

[aaron]

I do know the Sacramento County Park's new operation in conjunction with the FBI.

Wait so you're going to get the FBI to stop tweekers from breaking into cars?!

[STEELIES/26c3]

Check your pm's
m

[Steelin' Time]

Though I read this message board fairly often during the Steelhead season, I rarely post anything. I just read all the posts on this topic with interest. Though I used to fish the American weekly back in the early 1990's, I only fish it once a year or once every other year at this point.

My question is this: is it legal to have a loaded gun in my boat as I drift the American? I fish solo 95% of the time and often have a loaded gun with me in my drift boat, depending upon the river I am fishing. On the SF Eel & the Feather, I always have the gun loaded and have for nearly 20 years. On the Chetco or Smith, I feel safe and don't load it or carry it with me.

I have never had any trouble on any river, though I have been apprehensive at a takeout late in the day a few times when some shady looking people have driven onto the gravel bar as I load up my boat. Just last week on the Smith as I was loading up my boat and stowing gear in my truck, I loaded my gun when a vehicle approached @ dusk, just to be safe.

With the American being in a populated area, I would like to know if I can legally carry a loaded gun in my boat. Thanks for any information on this question.

[aaron]

Thanks for the info steelies, glad something is being done.

[mr. 3 wt.]

If a guy wants to carry a gun fishing it's his purogitive. It is America isn't it? We do in Alaska.

[mr. 3 wt.]

I personally don't carry a gun around Ca rivers cause I like to think my buddies and I can handle our own, but if someone needs to have one around to feel secure then no biggie. In bear country I sleep better with a shotgun with bear slugs by my side. A large revolver if I am hiking around bear country is also somewhat a secure feeling. Either way, yeah I am sure you would get in a lot of troube shooting a tweaker f-ing with you, maybe just shooting above his head would make him think twice.

[Darian]

This thread has gone beyond the pale and should die of it's weight in B.S....

I recognize this discussion has brought out all of the frustrations involved with incidents where we have little or no control.... :mad: Also, the feeling that if we could take action on our own, somehow that would make us all feel better.... :neutral: BUT, I'm having some difficulty understanding how firing a handgun, rifle or shotgun over the head of an intruder, in the watershed, into an area inhabited by somewhere near 1 million people in their homes or work places is the act of a rational person.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Carl's right.... If you have to carry a firearm for fishing around here you need to find somewhere else to fish or something else to do. 8) 8)

[Dustin Revel]

This thread has gone beyond the pale and should die of it's weight in B.S....

I recognize this discussion has brought out all of the frustrations involved with incidents where we have little or no control.... :mad: Also, the feeling that if we could take action on our own, somehow that would make us all feel better.... :neutral: BUT, I'm having some difficulty understanding how firing a handgun, rifle or shotgun over the head of an intruder, in the watershed, into an area inhabited by somewhere near 1 million people in their homes or work places is the act of a rational person.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Carl's right.... If you have to carry a firearm for fishing around here you need to find somewhere else to fish or something else to do. 8) 8)

There are plenty of people who have a cwp and carry a firearm everywhere and i don't sse a problem with that or with carrying a firearm while fishing. Guns are quite effective even with the safety on.

[Dustin Revel]

Wow carl, it sounds to me like you're the one with a gun in his "azz" i hope your satisfied.... someone is a little grumpy
who pissed in your cheerios?

[Darian]

Dustin,.... you missed the point. Aside from the obvious problem of what potentially happens when a spent bullet falls into an inhabited area, there's the other concern of committing a crime in urban areas (e.g. brandishing or firing a weapon at a person or dwelling, whether hitting them or not). :thumbsdown:

Think about it.... You're alone with what you think is an assailant. You act and the guy runs off. After the event, you're alone again. law enforcement officers arrive (....because some guy saw you draw from a distance or a bunch of people complain about the gunfire). You say I drew my gun and.... With nobody to back you up and no good witnesses and you've committed two serious crimes. Whose gonna end up, cuffed and in the back of the cruiser.... You may eventually "get off" but at the least you're gonna have a very unpleasant and expensive encounter with the California Justice System. :-s

One sure way to avoid unpleasant encounters with "jittery" law enforcement officers in this and other urban areas is to leave the firepower at home.... :confused: You'll be able to enjoy fishing and a lot of other people will be thankful. :D

[Dustin Revel]

Darian,
I understand exactly what you are saying, but I also understand the argument for having a Concealed weapon just in case. i personally choose not to but I understand why my friend's 5'2" 100lb girlfriend carries a firearm while she is by herself on the river. I also understand why my Mother (a truck driver) would choose to carry a revolver when she is on the road.

I understand why some people feel it is better have it if they need it and hope they never have to use it, but i (like you) accept my odds and choose not to carry.

[jbird]

This is too funny!!!!!!

[Hairstacker]

I hope to God I don't go fishing someplace, And have some skinny 17 year old snot nosed kid, wearing an Orvis jacket start waving a gun at me.

Okay, I've been carefully following this thread since the beginning and have thus far chosen not to post but now I feel compelled to ask -- what's wrong with wearing an Orvis jacket?!? :D No, I don't own one but they seem rather nice. . . .

[Hairstacker]

Carl, I know, I was just kidding around. :D But then again . . . now I can put the Orvis jacket back on the "maybe I'll get one someday" list. :unibrow: :lol:

Personally, I would never consider carrying a gun on the American for all the reasons mentioned. If my mind were to entertain such thoughts, I would simply fish somewhere else. It's just not worth it. Besides, I only own a 12-gauge and I wouldn't want to wade with it.

[wjorg]

Darian...in cased you missed it, Dusty never advocated the firing of a weapon in a populated area. Having a Concealed Weapons Permit(CWP) means you have passed, at least in most states, some pretty rigorous background checks and safety/handling classes. He said there is nothing wrong with having a weapon if you have a CWP.("There are plenty of people who have a cwp and carry a firearm everywhere and i don't sse a problem with that or with carrying a firearm while fishing. Guns are quite effective even with the safety on." ) Get off your high horse.

Carl....you are a good friend of mine but I think you made it a little personal with the Orvis Jacket line. Dusty is a good guy, even if he is young, and he is smarter than you may think. He is also probably the last person you would ever have pull a gun on you. Last I heard his fists did fine by themselves.......

[jbird]

Hey Carl

Remember the scene in Apocolypse Now? Wher Robert Duval says, "If I say its safe to surf this beach, its safe to surf this beach!!" This thread makes me think of that only translated into fishing the American. I can just see it, guys wading out into mortar fire.LOL

One of my all time favorite movie scenes by the way ;-)

[mike N]

Bummer, I was going to practice spearfishing at the A. :-)

[Steelin' Time]

Gentleman,
I am the individual who asked the question about the legality of carrying a gun with me while drifting the American. Thank you, Tfisher, for the information about guns in the American River Parkway.

Several interesting views have been posted since I last checked this forum on Jan. 11th and posted my question. Every one is certainly entitled to their opinion.

I carry a gun with me in my drift boat fairly often. I fish solo most of the time and nearly always fish till last light. When I reach the takeout, the gravel bar is usually deserted with other fishermen long-since gone.

Anyone who fishes the North Coast rivers or the Trinity knows that these areas can attract some people who many of us would be leary of. I do not carry a gun to protect myself from any fishermen, but from the type of people I have seen many times hanging around a river access point late in the day that make me feel uneasy or unsafe.

When I do take some one along on a fishing trip, it is generally my wife. I have to beleive there are many people who view this forum who, if they were last boat out on a remote gravel bar, at dusk with their wife, might feel safer with a loaded .357. I sure as heck do.

When I asked my question, I already knew that California law allows me to carry a loaded gun in my boat, just as any of us can have a loaded gun in our campground. If you're so inclined, check out CA Penal Code Section 12025. You can find it online easily.My question was specific to the American River, because it is in a populated area.

I am 54 years old, never had any legal problems, married for 34 years (to the same girl), am a father and a grandfather. I hope I never have to use a gun in self defense, but would do so if needed. I have never waved my gun at any one or taken it out of its range bag in my boat. And I sure as heck don't wear an Orvis jacket, you can count on that!

Leaving in the morning, with my wife, my driftboat and my Smith & Wesson to fish the Umpqua for 4-5 days and then head to the Oregon Coast for a week or so. I'll do my best not to shoot anybody while I'm gone! Pat Manly

[Phil Synhorst]

Hey Pat, hope you and the wife have a great trip. Maybe these storms will turn up, and there'll be a good push of Steelhead for you. Give us a report when you get back.