Frustration, frustration!

[captnorm]

Hi everybody, hope you are all well!

I have an 8 weight, 9 foot Loomis Prescado fly rod with a Rio T-14 (27 feet) with Amnesia (don't like this Amnesia stuff already, have to stretch it every 5 minutes it seems like to get the stupid kinks out) shooting line. I can't cast this combo more than 60 feet, sometimes the line rolls over on it's self, got wind knots like crazy, and other problems, too many to name!! What am I doing wrong? I have about 2 feet of Amnesia outside the rod tip, I wait for the "tug" of the line straightening out behind me, I still can't get a smooth cast nor a longer cast. Somebody please chime in here with some answers, I feel embarrassed the way things are going right now and I have a trip planned for Saturday for stripers in the Delta. I hope Jerry has a lot of patience!

Norm

[andanb]

Have you really learned to double haul or are you trying to "fly cast" the line. It is never a bad idea to take a lesson even if it is just a tune up. We all have bad habits that we try other "bad" things to fix to just make it work. It never works everything eventually falls apart. An extra set of trained eyes can prevent many hours of frustration and more importantly less effective fishing.

Check out Jeff Putman.

[Rick J]

your line system may be too heavy for your rod. 27 feet of T14 is around 380 grains which equates to around a 12 wt line. An 8 wt line is around 210 grains. Often you can go up 1 or 2 line weights with a shooting head but that might get you up around 280 grains.

Does the line seem heavy and does the rod seem to overload with your setup?

Amnesia works ok but is best if it is not cold out. A good stretch should last for quite some time if warm.

[Ty@Landpark]

I'm working on improving my casting and overall knowlege of fishing and reading the water. Another great local resource is Charlie Gonzales (aka: bigvalleyguide.com) who does guide outings. I recently started working w/Charlie and did a private mini clinic whereas the focus is on casting techniques, various tactics, and approach on learning how to fish to shorten my learning curve and increase my productivity on the water. You can contact Charlie on this board if interested in this type of approach and or for a guide outing. I'd be happy to pair-up with you on a future mini clinic...simply send me a personal mgs on this board. Any newbie reading this reply that shares a similiar interest for improving may wish to consider utilizing Charlie as an additional local resource. I'm looking forward to a second mini clinic with Charlie on 10/26...and "open" to a couple folks joining me...send me a pm very soon.

[Jay Murakoshi]

Norm,

I this a new rod that Loomis came out with? I would think the line is way overloading the rod. Myself, I would cut the T-14 any shorter then you'll end up dumping the line because of the short head. As for Amnesia, I've been using the stuff since I started fly fishing back in the early '70s. but now I have been using the clear Amnesia for 25 plus years. Look for the Hal Janssen leader control material in 25 or 30 pound test.

Jay

[Flycanoe]

I agree, 27' of T14 is too heavy for your rod. I was only casting 60-70ft with the same setup as you. I now use 30' of T8 (240 grain) and it works great on my 8wt and I can now cast 90-100ft (after lots of practice).

The other tip is to soak your amnesia in water for at least 1 hour before using, overnight is even better, then lightly stretch the line before starting and all the coils will be gone.

[aaron]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 28' of T-14 the standard length for most 8 or 9 weights? I know I throw it just fine on mine.

[captnorm]

Norm,

Is this a new rod that Loomis came out with?

Jay

No, this was a combination rod-reel-line that I picked up at a shop about 4 years ago, I don't think they make this rod any more.

I have some clear Amnesia 20# that I may go to, the red keeps coiling up on me.

Maybe I just need a lot more practice. I'm practicing on a park lawn now, unable to try a "water haul" to load up the rod or is it too loaded now? Maybe an instructor as Ty and andanb pointed out will be beneficial to me.

Thanks for all the help. I'll let you all know how it went on Saturday. Until then I'll just keep practicing, will probably use one of Jerry's already rigged rods.

Norm

[Scott V]

Have Jerry throw your rod, he will be able to tell you if the line is incorrect or if it is just something in your casting. Have fun.

[David Lee]

Norm -

27 feet of T-14 shouldn't be too heavy at all - I used a 28 foot T-14 head (w/ 100 feet of 30 LB. Amnesia) in the surf in Baja a few years back ..... almost all of my casts were past the 100 foot mark , several were quite a bit longer . The rod was my old Sage RPLX 8 wt. .....

I usually use a single haul only - by using a water haul (roll-casting the head onto the water w/ a foot still in the tip-top) and SLOW THE STROKE DOWN to make the back cast , slip a few feet of line to get the overhang (try to jab your casting arm .... like you are reaching at the 10:00 or 11:00 position at the apex of your back cast), smoothly make the fore-cast while hauling , stop HIGH . The head should piss out like it was born to fly !

I see you are in Oakley - you might want to get a message to Dan Blanton , he's at the Sugar Barge on Bethel Island for the season ...... I'm sure he wouldn't mind giving you a pointer or two if you drop in for a visit . I'll be at Bethel on November 1st in the afternoon and would be happy to show you how it's done .

David

[Jgoding]

Norm, are your casting measurements while wading or from a boat/dry land? And does that 60' include the shooting head (i.e. you're only getting about 30 feet of running line out? While wading waist high with current and just letting my lines sit in the water, I'm happy with 70-80' casts (40-50' running line out). I'm not quite sure how far I can cast though as my length measurements are pretty bad but i'm sure it's close to that. Fishing from Charlie's boat though, with my 8wt, I was down to about 10' of 120' of running line on my reel.

Can't remember what's on my 8wt, but 280grains sounds about right. I do know on my 9wt, I'm throwing a 350 grain type 7-8 and it adds a little challenge. My brother uses a 300g (which is what Andy recommended) on an identical rod and he seems to throw it alright.

[Adam Grace]

First of all I suggest throwing away your amnesia and buying a good running line like something from Airflo, Rio or S.A.

Don't worry about your shooting head, you set up sounds fine.

My guess would be your power application throughout your power stroke. Try to smooth out your power throughout your casting stroke. Do not "punch" your rod at the end of your stroke, that will cause tailing loops and other issues.

I agree with andanb, give Jeff a call for a shooting head casting lesson...not that this will help much before your trip but a class sounds like it will help quite a bit.

Try practicing a smoother power stroke before you go, at the end of the stroke simply stop your rod tip do not pull the tip back to you on your forward stop.

[easymends]

Try this video out.

http://www.flyfisherman.com/videos/Jim_Cast.mov

[captnorm]

Thanks all for your tips! It looks like I've got a lot of practicing to do! I can cast my regular lines fine, it's just the T-14 I'm having trouble with. Tomorrow I will try all the tips that I have received and on Saturday will put it all together and will have a great trip with Jerry! I'm sure Jerry will give me some more helpful advice, we'll have a great time!

Norm

[Mrs.Finsallaround]

Just thought I'd add that I cast 33 ft of T-11 on my 8wt TFO... Definitely have to double-haul, and then I water-load it too. Casts 80-90 ft most of the time, even in crazy wind. Maybe your T-14 isn't long enough?

[paulegan81]

Ha!......., Just like Fins to think somthing isn't long enough...... you should see the fly she uses........

Norm,
Just remember that a lot of stripers are caught with 60' or shorter cast.... and when you are on the boat you will be higer off of the water and the line will go a little futher.......Fish with confidence...and you will get that adicting Tug..... Jerry can move the boat closer if need be.....
with practice your cast will get longer..... every body has great ideas of how a rod should be set up.....(for their casting stroke) some like short and heavy (26' of T-14) some like long and light (33-35' of T-8 )
your best set up will be the one that fits your stroke....... jerry will have some rods to use and if you don't find them comforatable the try some other combos.......
Jerry should also Have some "Eganators" on the boat a small fly that is easy to cast and is just the right size and color for the water conditions and avaible bait fish in the area....
"Eganator, the cocaine for Stripers....Ask for it by name" (just a litle inside Joke)

I would gladly let you try some of my rods with difrent tips (heads) if you would like.....
the running line you are using is some times dificult for newbes to get use to...
it will slip in your hand when hauling or stripping the fly in make sure you have a good hold on it...
you can pick up some good running line by Rio right now on closeout for $17.50 @ some shops in town.......
You wil get em...... take lots of picks.........

Paul
Tight lines to all...
and to all a good Fight....

[Adam Grace]

you can pick up some good running line by Rio right now on closeout for $17.50 @ some shops in town.......


I hope that you're talking about Kiene's shop and not others!?!

........considering that this is Bill's board and all.

Promoting other local shops on this board would be completely rude and inconsiderate.

[mike N]

I think I am an Amnesia fan too, but I don't remember. :-) I stretch it by holding a large loop with both hands and using my foot at the end of the loop to apply as much tension as possible for a few seconds, works for me even in cold weather.

I love casting heads and cast them long enough for a no talent hack, but couldn't explain it well enough to have you waste your time by reading my explanation. I bet Jerry will be able to help you out.

Good luck,

MN

[captnorm]

My worries were for naught, with a few tips from Jerry I was casting further than before and we had a great time fishing! The weather was beautiful, so the Delta was crowded with you name it, power boats, water skiers, jet boats, bass boats, and anything else that would float (with the exception of no float tubers)!! But I managed to catch 6 stripers and 1 LMB! Talked to a few other fly fishers and the fish were hard to find, you could see them on the graph, but they were not in a feeding mood! The ones that hit my fly (clouser, white over white with peacock herl on top, with rainbow Flashabou) really banged it, it was great! I thought I had a larger fish than I did! So all in all, my trip with a "pro" was fantastic! Thanks Jerry for a great time!!

Thanks for all your answers, Bill's Board is great!

Norm

[Terry Thomas]

With regard to shooting lines, there hasn't been a line created that doesn't kink to some degree. There is also a reason why Amnesia has been out so long...it is priced right and still does a pretty good job. Are there other lines better? Perhaps. One thing to keep in mind. Only strip off enough line that you can consistantly cast. Any line laying on the deck or in the water will greatly enhance your twisting problems.