Delta 5-18-08

[Hairstacker]

Fly fished the Delta this morning out of the inflatable kayak with my 7wt. rod. It was a beautiful day out there with almost no wind and the water was 74 degrees. :D Fished topwater exclusively with deerhair divers and got into a few. Here's the 1st one I caught that was just shy of 19":

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/Sachlil/200805181.jpg

Good, strong fish. I had tossed the fly in front of some dead tules laying in the water and didn't get anything after a few strips. It was such a fishy-looking spot, though, I cast a second time (which I don't often do) and got her after the first strip. Here's a picture of the tules I'm talking about:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/Sachlil/200805182.jpg

Got a few others here and there, nothing of any size, until I picked up this one that went 17 1/2":

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/Sachlil/200805183.jpg

This was a really fun fish, as it fought harder than the 1st one, which fought plenty. All in all, a great day to be on the Delta. So glad it's ON again. :D

[David Lee]

NICE !!!!

David :D :D :D

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Now if people will just go a lot, especially for the next month or so.

Mike, what months do you fish top water in the Delta for LMB?

Have you caight any other species doing this?

[Hairstacker]

David, thanks, it was fun. :D

Bill, I usually start fishing topwater in April/May through October, with September probably being my favorite month, although the topwater fishing is great all summer. Once the air temperature gets up above the 90s, though, obviously early morning is the most pleasant time and there's often less wind as well.

Right now is a great time to get out there -- I don't see how you can miss.

As far as catching other species on topwater, I've caught stripers, as well as a couple of redear sunfish while tossing size 2 deer hair bugs for largemouths. :shock: I also briefly had a carp on once on a size 2 Tap's Bug. Speaking of carp, I saw and spooked a bunch of huge (and I mean huge) ones today - I have got to figure out a way to target those things. I can just imagine the mayhem after hooking one of those. . . . :shock: :lol:

[David Lee]

...... I also briefly had a carp on once on a size 2 Tap's Bug. Speaking of carp, I saw and spooked a bunch of huge (and I mean huge) ones today - I have got to figure out a way to target those things. I can just imagine the mayhem after hooking one of those. . . .

Dragonfly Nymphs .

Check your mail .... say , next Friday - you'll find some :evil:

David :D

[Tony P]

I had tossed the fly in front of some dead tules laying in the water and didn't get anything after a few strips. It was such a fishy-looking spot, though, I cast a second time (which I don't often do) and got her after the first strip.

What lesson did you learn from that fish :?:

One of the biggest mistakes that the fisherman make when fishing for Bass or any other species is making only one cast to a good looking spot. If I think the spot should hold a fish I will make up to 15+ casts to that one spot. If you are just making one cast to a good looking spots you are passing by a lot of fish.

Tony P

P.S. If you just want to make just one cast to those area that's fine with me I'll just fish behind you & catch your leftovers :wink:

[mikenewman]

P.S. If you just want to make just one cast to those area that's fine with me I'll just fish behind you & catch your leftovers

Providing you are also flycasting topwater patterns from a plastic pool lounger, my money's on the Stacker :lol:

[Tony P]

Providing you are also flycasting topwater patterns from a plastic pool lounger, my money's on the Stacker :lol:

Plastic pool lounger, float tube, arm floaties, or state of the art bass boat you'll still miss out on a lot of catchable bass making just one cast. I fish out of a bass boat most of the time but I also fish out of a john boat & a float tube. When I'm fishing out of my bass boat I have the tendency to fish to fast & I have to make myself slow down & pick apart the area I'm fishing where as if I'm fishing out of my float tube or john boat I know I can't cover as much water & it forces me to slow down to make multiple casts in promising areas.

Tony P

[Hairstacker]

David -- thanks (!!!), I promise I'll give 'em a shot. The area represents a big, shallow flat chock-full of aquatic weeds, so it will be interesting. . . . :D The primary challenge, of course, will be to get a fly in front of them without spooking them, as they are awfully spooky critters.

Mike -- I sincerely appreciate your vote of confidence. Also, glad to see you're still hanging around -- hope you've been getting into some great fish, as you usually do. :D

Tony -- Perhaps some additional comments are in order in addition to the one-line you zeroed in on. . . . When I'm employing a dive-and-pause approach with deerhair divers (which appeared to be the pattern on that day), I am typically drifting with the current and taking shots at likely targets as I drift by. If it's a particularly inviting shot, like the one pictured, I won't hesitate to do what it takes to maintain my kayak position with the paddle and make a second cast. But, by and large, it is mostly single shots to individual targets. I can see maaaybe making a 3rd cast to a particularly inviting target but that's it -- I am convinced that anything more with a topwater deerhair diver (or popper, for that matter) where you're employing a pause-and-pop/dive retrieve is a waste of time.

I am well aware that you can often pull up a fish on a second cast, as I've done it many times. As an aside, I believe it was a 2nd cast that enabled Kevin Doran to pull a 10 lb'er up to a deer hair diver two summers ago. But I will continue to be selective in where I make those 2nd casts in order to maximize my overall probabilities of success during a session.

As far as speed of fishing, with the inflatable kayak, for me, it's just the opposite -- I feel the urge to limit the time I spend at any one spot so that I can get to at least some of the productive cover I'm aware of during a session, given my limited mobility and range. Or, to put it another way, in the area I usually frequent, I specifically know of a number of good holding areas, and I never have enough time to get to all of them. Just a different strategy and approach perhaps.

Of course, as you noted, to each their own -- while you're spending the 20 minutes (which for me is a lunch break) paddling the kayak around in circles in order to maintain your position and pull off those 15 casts to a single spot, I'll be exploiting many other, higher percentage targets in the mean time. :wink:

P.S. It just occurred to me that, hopefully, we're talking about the same thing -- when I say "2nd cast to the same spot," I mean getting the bug to land within a foot of where it landed on the previous cast. . . . not that I can always pull that off. :lol:

[Tony P]

Mike,

Everybody has there own way of doing things & there are no right or wrong ways of doing things when it comes to catching fish, I have seen fish caught on some of the craziest creations imaginable. I wasn't trying to correct the way you fish or tell you what to do I was just trying to give everyone some input on what works for me. I believe every fish you catch no matter what species tells you a little something about that day’s pattern. I have fished the Delta for many years & have had many times where all you need to do is make one cast to a piece of cover to generate a strike but more times than not it has taken more than one cast to that object to get the fish to commit to my offering. Another thing a lot of anglers miss out on is that many times you can get several fish of the same piece of cover. These are just my observations & if I offended anyone like "mikenewman" I apologize since he seems to think I was either correcting the way you fish or criticizing you.

Tony P

P.S. Kayaks are a blast to fish out of & I to fish out of a kayak quite a bit just ask Ken Hanley.

[KD]

The photo of the"corner" "Stacker" is showing could present a number of topwater casts IF they are strategically placed. Possibly 5 along the front from left to right. Hard to say given the camera angle. It could also provide opportunity for a number of casts ON TOP OF THE LAYDOWNS(tules on the water). hint!.

Topwater with fly patterns is one thing. Fishing subsurface fly or conventional is another. I have found that the first presentation is most important with topwater flyfishing. Accurate and stealthy presentations are key to making multiple topwater flycasts to an area and getting subsequent results. Multiple presentations is easy to do pitching/ flipping plastics or subsurface fly and can provide the same opportunity as the first cast. Picking it apart cast after cast subsurface. Nothing wrong with that.

I feel that if i have covered the area efficiently and with precision i move on. Lot's of cover to fish out there. The topwater 10+lb fish came on the first cast not the second... so did the topwater 6.5's,5's,7's,7.5(postspawn),4's, 3's, 2's, and most dinks client's have caught recently. Make the first cast count.

Apples and oranges or apples to apples, or maybe oranges to oranges? There is a difference. I don't care as long as there is some yellow on it:-)

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Thanks KD.

I am entered in the Fly Fishing Only Bass Tournament on Friday, May 30 in the Delta which kind of makes me giggle just thinking about it.

I hope they have a prize for last place?

[Tony P]

KD,

This being a fly fishing board I'm trying to compare apples to apples & I agree with you whole heartedly that the first cast is the most important weather fishing topwater or subsurface. With that said I think boat/casting position & a accurate cast should be your number one concern. One other thing one might want to think about is whether they are playing a numbers game or are they targeting the larger fish. If it's a numbers game I would first target the outer edges of the cover & work my way in but if I was targeting the largest fish in the area I would go for the heart of the cover if the cast presents itself. Those are just a few things to think about but as you know there are some many variables that will position the fish such as weather, current, shade, etc....

Tony P

P.S. I hope your whacking them while poor saps like me are working :D

[KD]

Some good stuff here Tony! I'll go for the heart every time. The best shot, the best feeding position, the first cast. Everything else follows....that's the plan anyway:-)

It's all the fun you can have.

PS..are you fishing the BnF Challenge? Hope to see you there!

[Tony P]

Ken asked me to come fish it but my partner here at work is out of town until mid June. I hope everyone has a good time & please everyone wear your PFD.

Tony P

[Hairstacker]

This has turned into a very interesting discussion. :D In the photo pictured above, I did in fact shoot for what I considered to be the single best shot at the whole thing, which I judged to be about 2' - 3' to the right of where you see that stick sticking up just right of center in the photo. You may think some other location represents a better first target but, keep in mind, I did get the fish. :lol:

I too prefer to take the best shot on the 1st cast, depending of course on the size, type, and configuration of the cover. I believe bass are more aware of their surroundings than many folks realize (which I'm sure you guys know). I mean, how many times have you had a crazed bass charge your fly, creating a v-wake on the surface, from 10 feet away. Or how about getting hung up on a tule with your fly dangling over the water, only to have it land in the maw of a good bass when you got it to fall free? Of course, that's not to say a bass will always move far for your fly, as it seems like sometimes you have to land it on her head. I guess my point is I prefer to give that bass the best opportunity to eat my fly rather than risk putting her off by casting around her. 1st cast, best shot.

Too bad we don't have a library of cover photos on here so that we can collectively pick them apart as to how we each would approach them. I think that also would prove to be a very interesting discussion.

Kevin, regarding that fish, sorry to mis-characterize the catch -- for some reason I could have sworn it was a 2nd cast but obviously I was incorrect. Thanks for correcting the record.

I'm glad you guys are piping in -- we need more discussions like this! :D

[Tony P]

It is a great discussion =D> & it just goes to show that nothing is set in stone as there are many different techniques & presentations that could work. What I like to do just to satisfy my own curiosity is when I catch a fish of a piece of cover like your picture shows I like to try & figure why the fish was there for example was there some type of structure (anything that changes the bottom contour such as a small point, humps, creek channel that swings in to that area, etc..) that was under the water that wasn't visible. If there was some type of structure that cover was sitting on then I would make a note of it & fish that same spot several times in the day & in any future trips since this would be the type of place that would keep replenishing with new fish.

Tony P

[mikenewman]

if I offended anyone like "mikenewman" I apologize since he seems to think I was either correcting the way you fish or criticizing you.

Tony

I'm frankly baffled that you have interpreted my light hearted response as indicative of my having taken offence or indeed why you you think I'd be offended by a post addressed to somebody else.(I aint that sensitive a flower :) ) My response simply states that in the hypothetical "shoot out" along the lines suggested in your post, I would put my money on Hairstacker. Here's why:
When I'm playing the topwater game, I'm constantly looking for structure or alignments of structure that suggest a likely bass presence. If I'm right and there is a fish then she is stationed with a window of the surface that becomes my target for presenting the bug. That target may be the size of a kitchen table or a dinner plate, according to circumstances. My aim is to make the presentation in or through the window as attractively as possible. As has already been acknowledged, the first presentation gives the highest likelihood of drawing a strike. Repeated presentations to the same window will act on the law of diminishing returns. Looking at Mike's photo, to present 15+ times would, to my mind, be flogging a sick horse. To present 15+ times right after a sharpshooting young buck like Hairstacker has just had a shot would mean that the horse was pretty much dead :) :)
Let's say there is time for 300 casts in a fishing session. It just seems more effective to me to try to present 300 highest percentage casts to bassy looking windows than 300 diminishing percentage casts to 20 such windows. (And let's face it, bassy looking spots on the Delta are like London buses - don't worry if you miss one, there'll be another one along in a second!)

Anyway, reading the subsequent posts, I suspect that in the end we are probably all singing off the same sheet which is something like "Be meticulous in your approach, thorough in your preparation and accurate in your delivery - and the rest is up to the fish!"

Finally, Bill's Board is a wonderful facility for many reasons but for me it really comes alive like this when we get some informed opinions that result in a bit of controversy, debate and some grown up argument. At best it can result in genuine knowledge being passed on; at worst it's just plain entertaining!

Offended? Not me, mate :D

Cheers

Mike

[Hairstacker]

sharpshooting young buck like Hairstacker

Is there another Hairstacker on this board?!? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tony -- I too am often intrigued by why bass are regularly attracted to a given spot, and I will often try to figure it out if it's not obvious. In the areas I fish regularly, I am also equally intrigued why certain, apparently attractive areas don't seem to ever hold any fish. I know there's a reason but sometimes I can't figure it out. It makes me really appreciate the good ones that do regularly produce.

Reminds me of an experiment I read about once. They placed a bunch of bass in a small, featureless round swimming pool and, after they settled down, they noticed they kind of distributed themselves all over the pool. But, as soon as they laid a small pile of rocks on the bottom in one spot, ALL of the bass hung out next to those rocks. I've never forgotten those before and after pictures. :lol:

[Sturmer White]

Hey Bill
You can't have last place. I had dibs on it long ago.
Sturm

[Tony P]

Mike,
I apologize to you for taking your post wrong & accusing you of taking offense to my post. :oops:


As has already been acknowledged, the first presentation gives the highest likelihood of drawing a strike. Repeated presentations to the same window will act on the law of diminishing returns. Looking at Mike's photo, to present 15+ times would, to my mind, be flogging a sick horse. To present 15+ times right after a sharpshooting young buck like Hairstacker has just had a shot would mean that the horse was pretty much dead :) :)

This is where I agree & disagree. Yes, your first cast (If placed well) will give you the highest likelihood of drawing a strike but I have proven to myself & many others that have fished with me over the years that repeated casts to the same target does pay off handsomely. I'm not saying that you have to do it everyday 15 times to each target, I let the fish & fishing conditions dictate how I will present my fly & if I think multiple casts to an area are warranted. When I make a cast to a promising spot where I think a fish should be I will hit it pretty hard with multiple casts trying to aggravate the fish into attacking my offering out of anger. More times than not when you do get that fish to strike after flogging the area with multiple casts the fish is usually a larger fish on the average. Try it you might be surprised what happens. :D

Tony P

[mikenewman]

Tony

Ok, I'll give it a go. (Maybe I'll trade in my Minn Kota for an anchor :) )

To be honest I am sometimes conscious that I could benefit from slowing down my approach.(At least it would give me time out to take a pee, now and again!)
You talk about the importance of boat positioning and KD about covering the area with efficiency and precision but I find this is so often easier said than done:-
As a right hander, fishing from the bow of a center consol, I have to keep the berm I'm fishing on the left side of the boat.
If there's any sort of current running, I ideally need to keep the boat facing into it.
The wind/current combination will often dictate the troll speed in order to keep a steady heading.
I try to minimize throttle variations in the interest of stealth.
I need to keep a minimum distance from the target for stealth and to have room to work the line.
Etc.etc.etc. :lol:

What I'm driving at is that I guess the real key is less to do with competence with a fly rod (which has to be a given) and more to do with mastering the mechanics of the approach.

Any tips from Delta veterans on the Zen Golden Rules of boat control gratefully accepted.

Cheers

Mike

[Hairstacker]

Tony - I certainly respect your experience-level, and I will give it a go as well. :D

Reminds me of when Richard on this board told us he often employs a really fast, ripping retrieve with his deerhair divers. After seeing the size of the bass he was catching, I tried it on a number of occasions and ended up having a blast, with bass falling all over themselves trying to hit the fly multiple times on a single retrieve as it ripped away from them. That retrieve is now a permanent part of the arsenal. :D

Mike - you make a great point. While it's true we're out there trying to hit pie-sized targets regardless of how big the retrieve window is, we are also doing it from a moving craft.

Sometimes, by the time I approach the end of a retrieve, my inflatable pool loung. . . uh, kayak has almost turned a half-circle. I really have to account for how my kayak will react to the currents on a given tidal movement and it often has a big influence on my approach. I may end up covering a slough from one end rather than the other just because it's an incoming vs. an outgoing tide, for example. This decision also has strategic implications because then I have to have a plan for where to go next.

Or, if it's windy, I may end up having to cast perpendicular to a weedline rather than parallel. I may even end up parked on weedbeds and moving incrementally for each cast just to nullify some of the effect of the wind.

I guess it didn't really occur to me that you would have similar issues in a boat with a trolling motor -- I thought you guys had it easy. :lol:

[Tony P]

mikenewman

Nothing beats time on the water to improve your boat control & fishing skills as the learning process never ends. With that said from the sounds of it you have the basics of boat control down & not seeing how your boat is set up makes it hard to give any advice on fine tuning your approach. Some things to think about if you haven't already done so is to use a stripping bucket or basket, Short accurate casts ( I either use a under hand or side arm cast), use a push pole, & try to keep your trolling motor on a constant speed instead hitting the on/off switch. Running your motor at a constant speed rather than turn it on & off will spook less fish. If your fishing with a buddy fish through the area like you would normally do but when you come to a prime target take turns keeping the boat in position while the other casts to that target.

Hairstacker

Your in a whole other situation with your Yacht :D & you seem to have it down by getting into the weeds so you can make your cast without worrying about drifting around in those crazy swirling currents. This can really work to your advantage by positioning yourself to make casts where the guys in boats don't usually go. One great example is to position yourself tight to the bank & fish parallel to the bank in that magic lane between the bank & the weed line.

Tony P

[mikenewman]

I thought you guys had it easy.

Mike

You have no idea: it's hell out there in a boat! Last time I went out it was so rough I spilt a Bloody Mary all over my new Gucci deck loafers! Still, at least I don't have to worry about a gust picking me up and tossing me over the levy wall into a field :lol:

Tony

Don't get me wrong: I ain't complaining! As KD says about the Delta, "it ain't lake fishing". It's the dynamics and challenges of the place that i love :) :)

Cheers

Mike

[Scott V]

In order to solve this; which way might be better, I think that everyone should take me fishing on a different day and I can then be a non-bias judge to which style has the better opportunity of catching bigger and more bass. :D :lol:

[Jay Murakoshi]

Keep the bass discussion going, I'm getting pumped up. I'm looking toward a couple of days shad fishing and then going after bass.

The group hooked into a lot of bass today. As they were running around the water, they were crowing "cocka, doodle dooooo :D
Lot's of small roosters from 4 to 8lbs. Some guys stayed on them all morning and ended up with at least 25 fish.
The West winds were blowing again this morning but not as hard as yesterday morning. It layed down around 10am.

A old group out in the morning and a new group in the afternoon. 4 more weeks to go.

Keep the bass and shad reports heading my way

Jay