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[Ed Wahl]

Okay, here's my idea. Basicly it's a wall of shame. I'll start it off tomorrow with some snagging pics of flyfishers and steelhead. What I'm after is some ideas on how best to proceed. I think it's best to start with flyfishers so as to clean up our own house first. We all know DFG doesn't have the manpower to police our backyard, maybe public humiliation will do what they can't. Anyone know if there's any legal issues with this tact, I don't want Bill or even worse, me, to get in hot water. This is kind of a general call to arms here, almost all of us carry cameras on the water, if we all use them against poachers, maybe it'll at least slow down. I think someone did this before, only posting the names of people using prostitutes in their neighborhood. No confrontation, just snap a pic and walk away.(yeah, right). I know for a fact that most of the flyfishers, and a hell of a lot of gear guys check out this board on a daily basis. You think they might think twice about snagging spawning fish if they knew there was a possiblity their face would end up here? How about some input, this is terra incognita for me. Ed

[JT]

Ed,
It sounds like a good idea to me. Go for it!

[David Lee]

Not a good idea , IMO .

Posting photos of the 'guilty' here will only leave whoever owns/runs this board liable for slander . Turning over the photos to the DFG/Police will do nothing - since the snagging goes on just past the parking lot of their office and DFG workers and see what happens out there on a daily basis .

Even 'snagging' has different meanings to different people - the usual A.R. rig of a bead , hook , 10+ feet of leader , and a Slinky (you know which one .... the rig that produces the CHEEK HOOKUP) is considered totally OK by most people . While I haven't seen any studies on it ..... I doubt more than 10 % of Salmon caught at .... say , Nimbus Basin , are hooked INSIDE the mouth .

There was a guy around several years ago (who shall remain nameless) - he was well-known for landing 150 to God-knows-how-many Steelhead a season from the American on flies . I've seen the photos ..... I was fishing in Fair Oaks about 8??? years ago and he showed up to the Island above the bridge (you know the Island - the place where people SNAG Spawners in the tailout ....) . The guy wades out into the run .... walking thru more than a few redds .... and starts swinging a Leech on a two-hander . He makes about 6 drifts and hooks a nice fish off a redd . The Steelhead is hooked in the side of the head . Ron Otto and I watched this .....

What does this have to do with the subject at hand ??

Fishing for Spawners isn't illegal . It IS unethical , IMO , but not against the law . What might work better than photos of people being shitty 'sportsmen' is .... planting 2,000-5,000 Anglers (fly , Bait , Gear , whatever) on the steps of the Capitol for several days (I'd think 2 weeks of being on the TV news every night) - screamin' and yelling at arnold to get his head outta his arse and fund the DFG . Admit it - if Police numbers were cut 10% , people would have a fit !! Why are WE taking this crap ?????

Just my opinions here .....

David

[Mike McKenzie]

Ed,
Maybe pictures that are such the the culprit can't be "identified" but document the extent of the abuse..??? Maybe won't cause any legal hassles and might get folks riled up enough to do what Dave suggests, spend sometime on the Capitol steps.....

Hey David,

Right on!! Arnie thinks that California has a "wonderful environment" with "lots of blue sky and bright sandy beeches"...this out of his mouth as he drags his giant carbon footprint around the world telling all what he's done for our "environment" as he blindly watches it go right down the tubes. Maybe I should say the "Canals".

Mike

[Paul B.]

Good idea Ed, Maybe it deserves it's own web site? License plate photos included. Paul

[David Lee]

Mike -

Think back to Prospect Island (does anyone remember that ?) - that was covered nightly for several weeks on television . Now .... take several thousand ANGRY Fishermen (Yeah , I'm pretty pissed off . How 'bout you ?) , plant them on the Capitol steps for a few weeks .... see what happens .

If anything's going to change for the better in this State , as far as Fish and Wildlife go .... we need a FUNDED , STRONG Department of Fish and Game . Where will the $$$$ come from to re-fund the DFG ??? We can start with the TV ads first , those have to cost a mint (and ..... what the hell do we need MORE people visiting/moving here for ?? We don't have enough people ??!!??) .

Writing letters and Emailing the powers-that-be isn't a bad thing .... I just think WE need to be a bit more ....... indignant . Rabid , highly angry/loud indignant .

David

[Ed Wahl]

Good points David. After sleeping on it, it occured to me that I can't post them using my own name either. Maybe a bad idea all around. The fishermens protest march and sit in would work wonders, but that goes right back to trying to unite anglers, and the fly fishing 'community'just got done pissing off the rest of them last week.

Has anyone ever considered some signage for the spawning areas, like the interperative signs the park people put up, showing what redds are? Maybe some "please don't fish the redds" signs closer to the water. Human nature being what it is they would have to be cheap, like wire and paper because .......nevermind, I've answered myself.
Ed

[David Lee]

Ed ,

You're 100% correct in that something needs to be done out there . But having you and I 'fix' the poaching problem is akin to us helping stop bank robbery . Calling CALTIP is about as much as we can do realisticly .

The 'divide' - yeah .... WE ain't so popular out there at the moment !! I honestly think that if we were all on the same page .... we could make the folks responsable for the water exports/DFG funding cuts shudder in horror . Think of how much $$$$ is spent on fishing and hunting here in California . If we had but one voice .... little could stop us from protecting the rescource .

Is arrrr-nuld even IN the Capitol bulding in Sacramento anymore ???

David

[jbird]

How about get that "Dog the Bounty Hunter" on the project. He'd scare the bajeezers out of the poachers. :lol:

[Ed Wahl]

Here's how it's handled on another board. Enjoy. http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=65954&p=3&topicID=15354867

[jbird]

Ed

I'm not sure I got the right link? All I saw was some dude posting some snagged spawners and most of the forum praising him for it. Not sure how their handling it. MAybe I needed explore the forum more...I dont think I could bare that tho :shock:
Someone said if you catch enough steelhead, you will eventually have some spilling eggs or milt. Thats true if you fish redds! I have never caught one single steelhead that ripe. You more or less have to pull them off a redd for them to do that.

Jay

[aaron]

Wow that link is sad. I think the quality of the fish speeks for itself!

[Ed Wahl]

Sorry Jay, I just couldn't figure out what style of print would convey a very sarcastic "enjoy". looks like I don't have to post pictures after all, these guys will do it themselves. I agree on the hen spilling eggs, apples and tomatoes can be overly ripe, fish are ready to spawn. Ed

[jbird]

looks like I don't have to post pictures after all, these guys will do it themselves. :lol: :lol:

I love it! :lol:

Its so sad theres guys like that representing our sport. I guess the best approach for us as anglers is to civily explain good ethics to anglers. If you only get thru to 1 out of 10, itll still make a difference. Humiliation is not a good teacher. But the risk is there even if you try to be nice. One guy on that thread said, "I'll be packin heat next time I go" :shock:

Be carefull out there.

Jay

[Darian]

Arrrrrgghhh!!!! I can see it now.... An outraged fly fisher accuses a gear guy of snagging because he hooks one fish outside of the mouth and before the guy gets a chance to release the fish unharmed, the fly guy runs up, yelling his/her head off and threatens to do harm to the gear guy. The response is a drawn weapon and an injury or death. Lest you think this example to extreme, just reflect back to the drunken A__ H___ rafters who fight each other with oars and whatever else they can find on an island in the river during the summer (over nothing). Another example might be a member of this BB community is photo'd showing him/her landing a single fish hooked outside the mouth. The fish is then released and the photo is posted accusing this person incorrectly.

Regardless of the motivation, posting photo's or making questionable accusations against anyone that uses a technique perceived as snagging or that we don't agree with by those untrained in what is REALLY illegal is full of problems for the poster, for BB owner and administrators. The last I heard, we're all innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Vigilante justice doesn't make up for the lack of DFG Wardens and two wrongs don't make a right. 8) 8) 8)

Get some training. Make sound observations, develop and document related information/photo's and report same to DFG is the appropriate way to carry this out. Help Wardens make their cases; don't interfere..... 8) 8) 8)

[Ed Wahl]

Aw Darian, don't you ever get tired of being the voice of reason? :wink:

[David Lee]

Aw Darian, don't you ever get tired of being the voice of reason? :wink:

Reason ???

The same Darian who , totally nekkid , can be found swinging a dead Cat on a string in the moonlight ?? That isn't reason (unless , of course , it gets positive results :twisted: ) .......

David :P

[Bob Laskodi]

Not to burst everyone's let's get flaming at the dudes on the Putah FFB bubble, but that fish spewing eggs wasn't taken off a redd or any where near a redd. But then again, I don't want the facts to stand in the way of a good flaming post battle.

[Darian]

David,..... You sayin' there might be something wrong with a time tested method of gettin' the Mojo on :?: :?: Haven't done that in several months. [-( [-( Besides there aren't any dead stumps filled with rain water around any more (what with all the development goin' on around here). :cool: :nod:

[David Lee]

Hey D !!

Does it matter if the rain-water filled stump has been sprayed w/ Malithyon for the 'skeeters ?? Or if said dead Cat was sprayed also ????

Sorry , but I'm curious (please don't say it ..... :unibrow: ) .

David :P

[Darian]

Bob,.... I'm confused.... :? :? I thought the point of reading the post on the Putah Creek BB was aimed at how to handle confrontation correctly.... :? :? Did I miss something :?: :?:

I guess this is a good example of what can happen when communications are for passing general info when excited about a great day. Not much fun if you have to be concerned with every word said, tho. :? :? :?

[Bryan Morgan]

I was on the south side of the A. at the Sailor Bar area just up stream of the area that Ed is talking about. The people that I do see there are high sticking and swinging during the drift. I did see a gentleman with a long lens camera taking pictures from the north side. There is nothing, immormal, illogical, or illegal about swinging an Egg Sucking Leach.

[mike N]

Ed,

I don't think this is such a good idea.

Look at your hand when you point your index finger away from you, where are the other three fingers pointed? :wink:

MN