conventional wisdom

[Ed Wahl]

I've been bucking conventional wisdom as it pertains to flyfishing this year. For example, fishing isn't very good midafternoon with a high sun, Salmon only move around early in the morning, steelhead don't act like trout, that sort of thing. Thought I'd test out the commonly known fact that Smallmouth fishing shuts off when the water gets cold. After I got out of a meeting today I drove up to "Smallmouth Country" to try it out. I know the spots where there are definitely some fish to be had. I tied up a bugger variation last night that has good juju in the name. Tequila bugger. How could that go bad eh? Cold and rainy walk in to the water, I didn't see any surface activity which is a little wierd for this water already. The usual holes are different, already changed by just one good storm. Water temp was 47 degrees,(that's right David, I finally broke down and bought a thermometer) clarity about 4 feet. I tried the Tequila for about a half an hour(oh man that sounds bad doesn't it?) then went hardcore on them. David's 8wt craw on a 10 ft leader. No fish has ever had a chance against that fly on the bottom in 10 feet of water. Well, here's the results that I made you all read so far to get. Conventional wisdom is true in this case, no bites, nibbles, licks, follows, or even bumps. Not even a Squawfish for my trouble. I did manage to wade in a little deeper than my hip boots though, so it wasn't a total loss. :shock: Fun is where you find it boys and girls. Ed

[David Lee]

I thought I told you that on Sunday - :?

They turn to little Green/Bronze rocks when chilly . Guess how I learned that (or , guess how many YEARS it took for that fact to set-in to my sawdust-filled head) ?? At least you got out .......

Tequila Bugger ?? Hmmmmmm ..... photos ??

(After the HIDING I took at the hands of your Autum Splendor , I'm keen to see this one :oops: )

David

[Ed Wahl]

Why do you think I went out there today? :) Sounded like a challenge to me. Here's a pic of my copy of a Tequila Bugger. I saw it in a winter 2000 issue of Flyfishing & Tying Journal, they don't know the originator. One of about a ton of mags Roostersgt gave me. FYI, there's another that I like better, brown and orange scheme, called the Rum Bugger(I swear, I'm not making these up!) but I need to pick up some flo. orange chenille first. They're Alaskan Rainbow patterns, but at least the author doesn't try to claim it as an original pattern, just a 'bugger variant. I just couldn't pass it up because of the name. Maybe I'll try to come with another color scheme for single malt scotch. :roll:. Anyways, here's my pic, you can google it for a better shot. Basic black bugger, barbell eyes, rubber legs, flo. green butt, flash in the tail, what more can I say. Ed
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/edfish333/IM001638.jpg

[David Lee]

:shock: :shock: :shock:

That thing's so ugly , it HAS to work !

D.

[gryhackl]

Great lookin' bug!!

[Darian]

Hmmmm,.... Kinda reminds me of some of those bugs I saw in Baja last summer.... :lol: Looks good enough to get bit to me. :D :D

[OregonSalmon]

Whoever tied that bug has a more severe drinking problem than me. If that fly was my dog I wouldn't even go to the trouble to shave his ass and teach him to walk backwards....I'd just shoot the hound!!! Even if that fly was guaranteed a trophy fish each cast and would make me irrisistable to beautiful morally corruptable young woman I still wouldn't tie it on. If while using that fly magicaly the winning lotto numbers would pop into my head I wouldn't think twice about tossing it in the dumbster. There are prettier critters swimming around the bottom of the Marianius Trench.

Good lord boys, let's get our minds out of the gutter when it comes to fly patterns. That looked like a fly pattern that was hooked on meth for two years. Remember, if it ain't cute, give it the boot. Speaking of which time to don the waders and head to the beach for clams. Just hoping I don't crap my pants. It was a close call yesterday. Finally made it to my friend's house but I was so crazed in "retention pain" that when I went into the bathroom I used the litter box and not the turlet. Bet that cat doesn't get fed for a week!!!

[SteelieD]

:roll:

I like it. Sorry it didn't catch fish, but good on ya for trying!

[Hairstacker]

I hear ya Ed, it does sound like an irresistable challenge. :lol:

[Ed Wahl]

That looked like a fly pattern that was hooked on meth for two years.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Great idea! I'll start working on a "Meth Bugger". :lol: :lol:

[OceanSunfish]

That looked like a fly pattern that was hooked on meth for two years.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Great idea! I'll start working on a "Meth Bugger". :lol: :lol:

Will you be wearing a Haz Mat suit while tying it? :wink:

[David Lee]

I tried the Tequila for about a half an hour(oh man that sounds bad doesn't it?) then went hardcore on them. David's 8wt craw on a 10 ft leader. No fish has ever had a chance against that fly on the bottom in 10 feet of water.

No .... not in YOUR hands !

I named it "ED'S 8 wt. Craw" for a reason - I couldn't BELIEVE how many fish you caught on that stupid , stupid fly in the first half of '07 .

I ain't one to over-estimate/jive results (just ask my Mother) , but I think I landed about 5 on it to YOUR 500 . Did you ever figure out if the smaller ones (you tye them down to what ?? A #6 ?) work better than the # 2's ?

All I can say is .... remember LONESTAR :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted:

David :lol:

[David Lee]

It was a close call yesterday. Finally made it to my friend's house but I was so crazed in "retention pain" that when I went into the bathroom I used the litter box and not the turlet. Bet that cat doesn't get fed for a week!!!

GG -

What with 8 ( yes , EIGHT ) of those furry lil' bastards standin' in line everytime I change the litter-box .... I have to say that I'm tempted .

Perhaps they'd think something was wrong with one of their pals ??

David

P.S. - March Steelheading up your way?? Let us know .....

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I guess that's why it's called a "warm water fishery"?

I think that the winter cold is best for trout and Steelhead.

I guess those moving water Smallmouth Bass don't eat much all winter.

I have a hard time imagining that fish can survive in our flood conditions at times in Nor Cal.

Well, I'm headed to Florida in March to get warm. It's Large Mouth Black Bass time there then.

[Ed Wahl]

Be careful what you tie.
I went ahead and came up with a Meth Bugger. Sucker made me nervous, I kept a hand on my pocket knife when it was close. Last night I put it in a box with my other flies. This morning I found it missing, and the compartments for the other flies had been smashed in.Meth Bugger had broken in and stolen all the brass bead heads and silver tinsel. Now I can't find my head cement thinner. Should I call the cops?

[SteelieD]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Hairstacker]

Should I call the cops?
No, but I would keep an eye on the other flies to see if they start losing any weight. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ptychocheilus]

hey Ed,

I'm perplexed about why the smallies seem to have shut down. I've gotten smallies on flies in the Potomac and Susquehanna when water temp was ~39 F (I got a few just this past Christmas when I was back visiting family). In fact, this is often the best time of year to get into really large fish, as they seem to stack up near creek mouths, and can be in shallower water than you might expect...

I haven't seen much on long-distance movement of smallies in the scientific literature, but at least in a trib to the Potomac that I know best (grew up in/on it), there's a distinct movement of fish downstream into winter holding areas. In this third order stream, almost all adult fish moved 5-6 miles downstream into the lower half-mile or so of creek and the mainstem, and moved back upstream during the summer. I ground truthed this by snorkelling the deeper pools - despite seemingly good habitat, the bigger fish just weren't there in January.

I'd be willing to wager that if you're not getting hits on that bug, and you're working it sloooow, you're not fishing over fish...

[Hairstacker]

ptychocheilus,

First of all, welcome aboard!!

I find your comments very intriguing and hope the discussion continues. I mostly fish for largemouth bass in the Delta and have experienced success fishing for them in the shallows under cold water conditions as long as I changed my tactics and flies to fish for them. I haven't yet, though, figured out the temperature at which they become too difficult to catch, as I generally give up around mid-December when it just becomes too uncomfortable to fish for them out of a wet kayak.

As far as smallmouths, I generally start targeting them in lakes in early spring when conventional wisdom says they'll start staging in shallower areas in preparation to spawn. I've also read that, on certain river systems like the Columbia in Washington state, the adult fish will migrate in great numbers into tributaries like the lower Yakima to spawn. But again, this is in the spring time.

But if they can be caught year-round despite water temps, I'm all ears! If it is indeed merely the matter of locating their shallow "winter holding areas," then perhaps it's just that more research is needed -- what say you Ed? :lol: But then again, is it possible that the local waters Ed and David have been testing are somehow different than the Potomac? Just thinking out loud. . . .

[Ed Wahl]

I think fish are fish, wherever they live. I'd have to agree with Pty, I don't think I was over any fish. My pals in the midwest tell me 47 degree water isn't really cold. May need more research, or, go catch some coldwater fish. It's supposed to be cold and rainy, maybe I'll just drink. ED

[Darian]

Maybe we should be watching more of those mid-west Bass fishin' shows on TV to get a tip. They fish in water down into the 30's.... :eek: :eek:

[David Lee]

My observations on cold water Smallmouth ......

I've only fished them here in California , and never in large rivers . As fall water temps drop into the middle 50's , Smallies are VERY slow to chase anything . I can remember fishing the 'late' season at spot 'X' (a small valley river) , late season being October . The Bass would only hit on the drop , no other part of the retreive . On this same river .... when the water was in the low 50's , Trout (Steelhead ??) would come in in the fall and the Bass were done . I couldn't buy a hit , despite knowing exactly where the Smallies were holding .

Spring is different . When the temps are going UP (even a few degrees) , you can expect to get more takes . By mid-April (when one of my small urban creeks used to open years ago ...) , clarity was usually the issue , not temps . While I found the water to be in the low to mid 50's , the Bass would bite better and better as the temps continued to rise .

Again , these are only MY observations - I would assume that further East/North , where the growing season is shorter , Smallies would likely feed in cooler temps . It isn't anything I've seen here (I started fly fishing for these fish in 1994) .

On a slightly related note .... Here's something strange that I've seen many times - Smallies and Spotties both prefer cooler water but I've noticed some insane bites in high summer , when the water was bathtub warm !?! I've fished with both Ed and Hairstacker on BLISTERING HOT days (with the water not much cooler) and have had EPIC fishing . Several times , the water temps were in the high 80's - well above the comfort range described as 'idea' in the scientific tomes I've read .

Makes ya wonder a little , doesn't it ?

Fishing during the spawn is strange - pre-spawn conditions (for me) have been hit or miss . I'll catch a few depending on how many fronts/storms come thru . I try to avoid throwing at Bass that are on beds (I have caught a few fish on an 'aggro- bite' , protecting the nest) . Post spawn ?? I've NEVER done well , especially directly after the Bass leave the redds . When the beds are empty .... a week or two seems to be better .

At any rate , to quote MSP .... "You won't know if you don't go" - maybe someone here CAN get them to bite during winter , I know I can't ! The % of bites per day is just too low for me . Again , this is only my perspective , so don't take it as an unbreakable law or anything ....

David

[ptychocheilus]

Thanks for the welcome hairstacker!

This thread got me thinking about smallies yesterday rather than the work that I should have been doing (classic displacement behavior!), so I started poking around for some ideas to keep Ed's liver happy...

From http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/areas/fisheries/montrose/smbtelem.html

"Smallmouth bass made distinct fall migrations of up to 27 km to wintering areas, and spring migrations of up to 29 km to spawning areas. Stream depth used by smallmouth bass during summer ranged from 0.1 to 4.6 m..." "some fish use shallow water (less than 6 feet) during winter months. One third of the radio-tagged fish did migrate to a deeper area than they used in early fall, but the remaining fish either moved little depth-wise or moved shallower for the winter. In addition, the preferred bottom type fish used showed a noticeable pattern when fall water temperatures declined. Areas with substrate composed primarily of silt were used more as water temperatures fell below 50 °F" "The consistent factor with fish locations in the winter was an apparent use of habitat with little or no current."

From: Langhurst, R.W. and D.L. Schoenike. 1990. Seasonal migration of smallmouth bass in the Embarrass and Wolf Rivers, Wisconsin. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 10(2): 224–227

"Smallmouth bass of age 2 and older (> 200 mm, total length) migrated from the Embarrass River downstream 69–87 km to the Wolf River when the water temperature fell below 16°C in autumn. Smallmouth bass returned to the Embarrass River in April and May, and most individuals returned to the same 5-km reach of river."

From: Todd, B.L. and C.F. Rabeni, 1989. Movement and habitat use by stream-dwelling smallmouth bass. Transactions of the American Fisheries Society 118: 229-242.

"Fish remained in restricted home ranges for most of the year but tended to disperse in spring when all of the radio-tagged fish left their home pool; 75% returned during the same season..." "Boulders were the most preferred substrate, and gravel was the least preferred."

From: VanArnum, C.J., G.L. Buynak and J.R. Ross. 2004. Movement of smallmouth bass in Elkhorn Creek, Kentucky. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 24(1): 311-315.

"39 smallmouth bass radio-tagged in May and June after spawning were composed of migratory (69%) and sedentary (31%) groups"


I've haven't fished for smallies out here, I've only been in CA for a year and maybe they really do behave different out here...but man, 87 km is a long way for a fish that few people think of as being "migratory". If there are seasonal movements out here, the lack of hits might be due to fish not being where they were last week, and not because they're shutting down.

I'd be really tempted to drag out my dry suit and swim through some of these pools, just to see if there's fish there. Do you have any suggestions for places to check that have decent vis?

[Ed Wahl]

Just one more and I'll let it rest. I found a very recent pic of my own homewater, the place where my fishing bug took hold, the Kankakee River in Il. That's I-55 in the background.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/edfish333/k3.jpg

[ptychocheilus]

Oof. It's awful hard to roll cast down an 8" hole in the ice...

I stumbled across some of the best underwater freshwater fish photos I've ever seen last week, including some great smallmouth shots (and lakers and pike and burbot!). Beautiful stuff, all shot in the Great Lakes...

http://www.michiganfreediving.com/

I wonder if you can get burbot on Clousers... I've electrofished some nice ones in smaller rivers in MN and Canada, but don't know how they respond to flies.