Board member opinion on the board

[Adam Grace]

I have re-edited my poll question, in order to not influence this vote as much as possible.

I have been noticing much more bickering and personal attacks lately and I do not like this. I think if we don't try to stop this arguing that this board will turn into something that we've previously praised it for not becoming.

This board used to be very friendly, yet recently there have been an increased amounts of personal attacks and posts that become skewed as the topic moves away from fishing on onto more personal nature with religious undertones. Please leave those opinions and passions to yourself!

I see this board becoming just another nasty place to get your post and opinions ripped apart by little cliques.

I already have some board friends that have already started to pull away, and I don't want to see them or anyone else go away because of personal attacks or arguments.

I getting really tired of having to walk on egg shells on this board, people are getting way too sensitive about non-fly fishing issues.

I'm about done with this whole place.....and that kills me because I used to like talking fishing and hanging out online with you guys, I don't really want to give this up but if this bickering continues I'm gone!

[jaybird]

Adam

What happened on this board is nothing! Compared to some other boards I've seen, this one is still VERY tame even with whats been going on.

Jay

[Bob Laskodi]

Although I do not like the recent trend of "flaming", I must admit that this board is one of the best around at stopping the "flamers" and is far better than most boards!

[bonneville54]

Adam,

Withe all due respect, one cannot answer the poll, it seems, without first ageeeing to your opinion of the direction of the board.

Perhaps a better question, and quite relevant, is to whether we agree with your supposition.


I see this board becoming just another nasty place to get your post and opinions ripped apart by little cliques.


Now, you may have something there and there is always that danger, so to speak. The anonymity of internet can bring out the worst in many of us, perhaps bringing out not only our insensitivities but magnifying our sensitivities as well.

A related question, and one the owner might ask is, what does one use this board for? how is it useful to their hobby or passion? I can't imagine any would admit to coming here to argue and it seems, as a percentage of the total, the snippy threads are low. So...one might say, if you don't like the direction or tone a thread is taking, don't read it.

I'll tell you this, I've learned a lot here.....from you and many others. I've even enjoyed the spirited and somewhat snippy debate about the word - dare I say - porn. One just can't take it too seriously.

It's a good place, with a wart or two. Your leaving might just make it worse.

Be well, John

[Scott V]

I do not judge a site by a few people, in whole I think the people on here are generally kind and very helpful. No one has upset me or made fun of something I have said, and if they do it is their loss. The only person who has come close to upsetting me is you Adam, you said we were going to go fishing together and we haven't yet! :lol: Other than that this board is stuck with me and all my newbie questions. :twisted:

[aaron]

Adam
Disagreement is human nature. I'm more inclined to read a controversial thread because when people bicker they usually give their reasons, logic, research and personal feelings on an issue. Although the context may be somewhat hostile I think these topics are among the most educational because of the variety in opinions and ideas presented; not to mention it's only fair to hear out both sides of an issue no matter how much you agree or disagree. Honestly if this board were to turn into some kind of mundane Orwellian utopia I would find somewhere else online to read for information and entertainment. I've gotten into heated debates here that got downright ugly but I can honestly say I respect the person who was extremely vocal in opposing my opinion because they stuck to their guns and felt very passionately about the issue. In life people are not always going to agree with you or god forbid like you. If you can't learn to accept this you are going to have a very tough time in any facet of life. If a fly fishing internet message board really gets under a person's skin that much then maybe they should take a step back and enjoy life without worrying about who's disagreeing with who online?
With that said I'm going to keep on enjoying the board for what it is and not what it used to be or what it could be. :smirk:
Regards
-aaron

[Darian]

Aaron,.... Very well said. :) :) :) I wasn't planning on posting in this but after reading your post, had to acknowledge the quality of it.

Non-personal argument leads to knowledge. I'm more likely to stop participating if this BB becomes a place where members post only fishing reports and everyone adds a one liner. That's what the Fish Sniffer is for.

In the past, when we've gotten a little out of hand, another member always reminds us to clean up our act. Just take things for what they are, learn and move on. 8) 8)

[erhetta]

I will participate here regardless of what others are going to do. I have learned so much from the people that contribute that I hope to be able to return the favor down the road sometime. I have made some great new friends and there are still plenty of you that I want to fish with some time in the future.

To answer the existing poll question, yes, I will continue to participate.

Aaron, I think you are right on.

[Hairstacker]

I see this board becoming just another nasty place to get your post and opinions ripped apart by little cliques.

:shock: Really? I read everything that gets written on this Board on a daily basis, and I'm surprised you see it that way. Personally, I'm not overly concerned because, for the most part, we've only seen contention when we get into certain subjects of a controversial nature, where I think it is not unreasonable to expect folks to get a little excited as they passionately argue their position. We also have quite a range of ages participating here, so there is some impact due to the varying maturity levels. But cliques? I wish someone would explain that to me, as this is the second time I've heard a reference to cliques on this Board, and I would really like to understand it.

In any case, aside from folks being mindful to exercise some restraint, I think it comes down to prompt, consistent involvement of the moderators. I noticed a recent personal attack that occurred in the Steelhead section that has gone completely unchallenged by the moderators, which I don't understand. If the moderators don't have the time to read every post, then perhaps they should expand their ranks, as I've learned that folks really don't appreciate moderation coming from anyone but official moderators.

[aaron]

Hairstacker

The individual in question has been warned. I've already cut his other thread. One more personal attack and he is gone.

Usually controversial issues play themselves out into a decent resolution or at least an agreement to disagree. Occassionally there is one bad apple here just to make trouble.

I don't want people hesitating to post something that could be controversial for fear of being reprimanded by a mod.

If anybody is not sure whether they should post something or something slips by the mods all it takes is a smiple pm to give us a heads up.

Thanks
-aaron

[Hairstacker]

Aaron, I stand corrected, thank you. :)

[jaybird]

aaron

I love your post. Everything I would like to say but am too scatterbrained to put into words.

I have also noticed forums have a somewhat typical pattern of life. they all go thru this. some crash and burn some hang on with everyone afraid to say anything except "went fishing..caught 1 fish...had fun"...."great post...thanks" :lol: That is definitly as good as dead to me. The thing I like here is there are guys that jump right in to break it up if it gets out of line. This really is the best forum of all.

Jay

PS Notice how we have jumped to #7 in popularity with whats been going on.

[jhaquett]

I noticed that it was #8 a few days ago, I thought it WAS #7 a while ago?:?: I could be wrong, but I remember wondering why this site would drop a spot!?

I have nothing new to input, great posts like aaron's says it all. I voted yes. 8)

[jaybird]

jh

We were always around #11 or #12 up until a couple weeks ago.

Jay

[Rick J]

curious if the "Porn Post carried us from #12 to #8 :).

I don't mind the personal posts and rants thatt occur occasionally though think they should be kept to mainly fishing related topics and keep politics and religion out of it.

That said, I don't think that Ron's post was out of line with a fishing BB as it was directly related to a fishing post and he just had a problem with language being used - some agreed, some did not but most were respectful in their comments.

The tricky part can be where fishing and politics potentially overlap such as where a particular ruling or policy may impact a fishery. This can be a fine line and often causes the most controvery but as long as foks respect each others views it seems this too can be discussed without flaming.

[HC]

Definitely yes! A few little tiffs won't bother this old wart hog, politics,or otherwise. To quit a good board is to harm it, its members, and its sponsers. I say loyalty to Bill and the other members is the main thing. This is trully one of the great fishing boards, mostly because of resident diverse members found here. Harley

[SteelieD]

As the community has expanded, it has gotten a bit more opinionated. BUT, as has been mentioned, it is waaay better than most. I tend to avoid posting the controversial threads, but I usually enjoy reading them, assuming the personal attacks stay out of it.

My 2cents!

[Frank Alessio]

Adam.... Hang in there, you have alot to offer.... I am a little older... Graduated from Chico in 69 got my Teaching Credential in 70..... It' all Good.... Relax Frank Alessio

[Ed Wahl]

Hey Adam, take this into account. You posted just this morning, now there's 2 pages and going strong. All supportive and respectful, I think that should give you an answer as to the quality of the members, and the moderators here. We all love ya buddy :wink:. Relax and calm down. :) Ed

[gryhackl]

C'mon Adam, lighten up! This post of yours is an insinuation that casts a pall over this board that simply isn't called for. The use of the opinion poll isn't necessary to make a point either. Let's all keep in mind that this is Bill's board and there are moderators on line that manage it, so lets let them do it. To be sure, you're entitled to your opinion and most everyone that participates, hopefully does so in a reasonable, thoughtful manner. Bill Kiene has been in the sporting goods business longer than many of the younger members have been on this planet. There's always room for opinions here and mine is that Bill and the site admin staff do a pretty darned good job. In the parlance of the day "Chill Dood."

[DonCooksey]

Adam:

I'll continue to enjoy the aspects of Forum that I love best: sharing of great fishing stories, tips on fishing, incredible photographs that members could otherwise probably sell rather than post for our pleasure, etc. That being said, I also appreciate the moderating influence of members on the posted comments of others as Darian mentioned. I remember posting something a bit nasty a while back and appreciated being reminded of the intended civility of the board by someone (probably Darian!). Reminders of why we are really interested in this board are always welcome and could go a long way in continuing its remarkable success. By the way, I think this thread needs a fish picture. Here is one from my recent try on the Yuba in mid-September.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/DonCooksey/IMGP0739b.jpg

[Digger]

I get where Adam is coming from. Perhaps because some of us go farther back in comparing what types of topics were typically covered just a few years back.

Some of the posts/replies that do get personal are just not right, and should be halted. Problem is some are subtle and subjective depending on POV. I have had respectful disagreements with some folks, but I've never made it personal, or at least not that I've been aware of.

The topics definitely have expanded, some of it is OK, some just doesn't belong here IMO. But that phenomenon happens on other boards as more people join. Other boards have eventually added an "Off Topic" thread where some tangential posts can take place, and moderators can also move some topics there that really don't belong under the already established categories.

I prefer to lurk more now, rather than post much anymore. I've made it my policy to keep trips to myself.
I thought just posting weather casts would be fairly benign, but I found can't even do that without catching some flack.

[PaulC]

I voted yes as well. I've met some cool folks through the board, and this is still a very civil board except for the occasional flame which someone puts out. Shoot...Darian and David showed me around the last time I was up which was very generous.

Hope you stick around Adam. I've enjoyed your posts and pictures in the past and am hoping to see some big steelie pics from your trip.
-Paul

[WinterrunRon]

Aaron, let me compliment you as well. Your first post was well written with words and thoughts of insight years beyond your youth. In fact, all who have subsequently posted seem to offer sound words of wisdom.

I really enjoy most everything posted. And the subject matter here is varied enough to hold my interest. I read what interests me, respond or create a post if I feel I have something to add/offer and do so without fear of being disagreed with. I expect disagreement, I encourage it. It’s how I learn to do things better, or differently, or more effectively or more efficiently. Like organize a fly box, care for waders, fish a river or whatever. I take from it what I can and try to give back a bit more when I can.

And, like Mike, I’m not certain I understand what it is you’re referring to that’s so upsetting, Adam. But I find that if you walk away from an upsetting issue and come back to re-visit it at a later date, you often will feel different about it.

Digger, I’m not aware of your reason(s) for deciding to keep fishing trips to yourself, but if we all made it a policy to keep trips to ourselves, would this be a more or less interesting place to visit? Please reconsider posting your trips. I’d like to hear about them, and better yet, see the photos!

[mako]

I'm sorry i have been away a while!
But has all this come about by one word??

[JerryInLodi]

Adam, I usually only check the topics of "warm water" and "stripers," sometimes "saltwater" and rarely, "general". Therefore I have no clue about the posts most of you are talking about!

The most heated controversy I can remember on the parts of the board that I read is whether 20# or 15# was the proper tippet for stripers, not really electrifying as far as heated and passionate posts go!

Since the board is divided into categories, I think each probably has its own particular flavor and players.

[jlmelend]

I think what Adam is getting at is posts are being replied to with some harsh criticism. Everyone has a different threshold for taking a criticism personally and we can't govern that. And there is a fine line between suggestions which are construcive and criticism which can be perceived as pointed or personal. If you wish to offer criticism such as "don't fish" or "why did you do X?" doesn't it make sense to use a PM so that people don't feel publically attacked, admonished or embarassed? Isn't this publically accessed message board best for useful info like fly choices or methods, and not to air our pet peeves about fishing? Ironically, some of us have chosen to communicate with others by PMs exclusively now, just because we'd rather not get tagged with a harsh reply on this board.

Please consider this when you reply.

Adam, you are still a respected, stallworth, positive presence on this board. I know how you feel, but please don't stop posting, and thanks for having the courage to post on such a touchy question!

Joe

[MrBig]

I'm staying. I really enjoy this board.

So.....some people trash talkin on here really bothers people that much?

[Adam Grace]

Guys, obviously I have a lot of comments to respond to. I will do so after I finish something much more important, my school work. I would like to spend some time on my post to better articulate my concerns, unlike my harsh reaction to Jay's abortion topic that prompted this whole thread and poll.

[David Lee]

I've been on this , the 'new' board , since day one - when Bill Kiene asked me to try to drum-up some conversation . I was also very active on the 'old' board for quite a while .....

I have seen (in the past 6 months or so ...) civility take a turn downhill . In that time , I've cut-back my posting to the point where I rarely post anything , lest anything 'blows up' . I understand your walking on eggshells comment because I feel pretty much the same way .

I think that as long as someone posting tries to have a little respect for everyone else ...... things will work out fine . Some people just don't have good manners . Everyone here has shown great restrain as far as 'pulling the trigger' and I believe that most are what I would consider to be 'nice' .

Having said that - it IS different now . I remember the first year was great !! Lots of warmth/personal interplay made the board one of a kind . I don't see much of that anymore ......

Things change , I guess .

David

[jaybird]

sheesh! I deleted it before anyone saw it and it was pretty subtle that didnt attack anyone at all but was just an OPINION I have.. I guess I'm to blame then huh? I guess I'm the on who should sign off :oops: :?

[mems]

Aloha Adam, I enjoy this board. I have met a number of very nice people on this board, you included.
We went fishing. Some fish are dumb and stoopid and bend your hook, like big puffers. Some are fast and elusive like bonefish. Some have nasty teeth like that cuda you caught. People are like that also.
If you get into one with teeth, be prepared, have wire and some good pliers and get the hook out without any missing fingers. Glove up, but the slime still stinks. Let it go and keep casting to the one you like, bonefish!
If you leave I will miss you. You will always be welcome to fish with me when you visit.
Remember the same consciousness that creates a problem can't possibly be the one to solve it.
If someone or something offends you, then either let that person know and try to let them understand your point of view, or let it go and chalk it up to experience.
I have seen a number of good sites recently tank for one reason or another. I still consider the memebers of this board my friends. I have plenty aloha for you guys, Mems.

[FISHEYE]

This is one of my favorite boards and I really don't see that much crap like a few I used to visit. The others that I really like are www.danblanton.com, www.alaskaflyfish.com and now a new one called Beyond the Breakwater.

[bigtj]

Adam,

All I can do is try to be a nicer guy. I've been a jerk a few times lately and all I can do is try to do better. If we all do this, then I am hopeful there isn't a reason for anybody to leave.

I want to take a moment to say that although I disagree with some of you guys from time to time I appreciate everyone here and thank everyone for the respect and good wishes I've received.

Best,

-John

[Adam Grace]

David, you summed up my sentiments in your post, thanks.

[dtp916]

Ah...um...well........

I've been moving and whatnot, and just logged on now and there's this 3 pager about people bickering? Damn, what happened?

This is a great message board :D There are some hotheads, but far less than the rest of the boards where its a cliques against everyone and all they do is talk about the same thing over and over and over again.

Makes me want to pull my hair out.

But I have a shaved head :lol:

[Digger]

Adam, David, my sentiments exactly...Amen

BigTJ, that's very decent of you.

So, let's all have a big cyberspace group hug? No?

\:D/

[JerryInLodi]

I'm in!

XOXOXOXOXO

[gryhackl]

Aww....I need a moment.

[jlmelend]

Hugs and moments aside,
I'm glad this message board demonstrates that we have a high regard for Adam and others that have posted. Clearly, when anyone is having a tough go with anything, everyone expresses a desire to be positive, constructive and help out. I defy you to demonstrate this with any other interest group. There's more good about fly fishing and talking about it than just regard for our sport, and this demonstrates it.

Joe

[JerryInLodi]

Actually what would probably improve the quality of the recent posts is if everyone would spend a little more time on the water! The number of posts in the fishing catagories has been dismal lately. Guys, just because it's getting a little colder outside is no reason to stay in the house. In fact, the next two months, in my opinion, are the best two months of the fishing year.

Get out with your rod, dog, buddy or significant other and do some fishing and maybe a little catching. It's a great attitude adjustment mechanism!

[David Lee]

If you dudes knew where I've been ..... you wouldn't WANT a hug :evil:

:P David :P

[nrthcsteel]

Just saw this post. Im staying in. Ive only been a member of this forum for a few months but really enjoy it and the regulars who post often. Being semi isolated in my little coastal town its nice to hear about familiar waters and areas that I fish. I try to participate as much as I can and offer whatever info and reports I can. Would have never even heard about Bills spey gathering let alone made the four hour trip to attend if it werent for the board. Had a great time, next time we need to do forum member intros so we all can actually meet face to face. I think any forum is going to have its share of posts that some may take negatively and that may offend people or individuals, its the nature of the beast. Adam you contribute alot to this forum and would hate to see you leave. Anyway there are alot of good people on the forum and I hope I get a chance to swing some flies with you guys one of these days, any member I meet on the water gets first crack at the run after proper introductions are made. Kevin

[Bryan Morgan]

I will continue to use this format to post success and failures, but I won't use it to progress the bickering !

[Adam Grace]

Thanks for the kind comments guys. I have since "cooled off" from needing to vent.

I will post a report about the Trinity tomorrow.