Fish P!@$

[WinterrunRon]

Pardon me for saying so, but I'm seeing this more and more and thought I'd say something about it.

I find the word "porn" a less than flattering description to use on a fly fishing message board.

Here's the definition from the dictionary: obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, esp. those having little or no artistic merit

I realize it's meant to be a play on a word, but can't this be the one online place my kids (and maybe other's kids as well who are interested in fly fishing) can visit without us parents having to worry about our kids reading or viewing anything having to do with sex, violence and/or obsenity (or should I simply consider it a personal thing and just add this website to my already extensive list of blocked websites the kids are restricted from accessing (at least from home!)).

I may be in the minority, but my frustration level regarding what's displayed on TV during prime time "family hour" is apparently spilling over to here. I can't seem to watch a prime time telcast with my kids without a suggestion of sex, violence, infidelity or obsenity, (sometimes all four!) either in the show or in the commercials. :(

And now the word porn is showing up with some regularity here. What next? Fish prostitutes?

With this one exception, I will say that most every post I've read is courteous and respectful when it comes to online language and I applaude all who practice retraint. I'd like to see it stay that way.

Let's find another word...

[jbird]

Amen Ron!

If youre in the minority, I'm right there with you :)

Jay

[Bluegrass Bill]

Ron and Jay,

I am also with you guys on this issue all the way. Thanks Ron for bringing it up.

Bill

[Flycanoe]

Agreed and amended.

[jhaquett]

I am right there with you when it comes to today's TV shows or movies. I don't know the last movie I saw that didn't have a sex scene or the last TV show I saw that didn't mention sex some way or another.

It may sound a little prude coming from a 21 year old but its pretty annoying. I could only imagine if I had children...

As far as it being on here, I think that is the first time I have ever seen anything of that manner, and the word was just used out of context.

I remember thinking, how is that fish porn?

[Hairstacker]

Ron, I am with you as well. I never did care for that particular reference and the implications it carries.

[Adam Grace]

As a bachelor, without children, my vocabulary and terminology is much less restricted and sometimes vulgar. I use terms like the one we are discussing now with fishing buddies, we have fun joking around with little word-play like that. Since the overwhelming majority of board members are adults, I tend to forget that children my be reading these posts. Taking into consideration that you guys are also parents, and I would also normally restrict my choice of words if your children were physically present during our conversation, I will try to censor myself (out of respect for you guys) however much it may bother me to be censored.

[Matt Frey]

I am a batchelor too and I have heard the term used frequently. I also admit that at times my friends and I use language that may be inappropriate, but there is a time and place for everything.

Thanks Ron for taking the time to speak up and let us know how you feel. I guess I never gave the term much thought. But, now that I think about it I would hate to get the "Daddy what is porn?" question. This is a great board and for the most part everyone is civil. That is what makes this the best board.

Adam,
You have always seemed like a nice guy. So I hope you don't take this the wrong way. You may want to re-read your post. I dont see why being respectful to others would bother you.

Anyways, thanks Ron for giving us the reminder that kids do read this board. I know sometimes I forget.

Matt

[PatrickM]

One thing that I've always liked about this board is the respect that everyone shows for each other. Every now and then a post may ruffle some feathers, but it can be hard to tell someone's "tone" when you're not dealing face to face with the person that you're conversing with.
I think Ron has done the right thing by voiceing his concern in an up-front and polite manner. Judging by the responses, he's not the only one who feels that way on this issue.
Personally, I have no problem with the use of the word in question, but at the same time I can see Ron's point of view and have no problem using another word to avoid offending fellow board members.
This issue is resolved in my books. :)

[gryhackl]

Count me in too, Ron!

[Ed Wahl]

Adam, your a class act, Ed.

[SteelieD]

:nod:

[k.hanley]

I’m with you Ron 100% on this one.

Adam you know I have much respect for you buddy. I don’t think this is an issue of censorship, but rather one of choices. Using these cyber boards is a very different experience from talking to a group in the same room. In this environment we really don’t have a complete picture of who is participating.

Basic respect isn’t a generation thing, nor is it a “parent’s” thing. It’s just simply something that should be a foundation for everyone. I know, I know, now I’m getting too preachy…. Sorry ‘bout that.

I’m just trying to continue to better understand the encounters with this medium. At any rate, make your choice and do what you feel is right.

With respect, Ken

[WinterrunRon]

I appreciate everyone’s responses. And I would like to compliment the younger guys for their open-mindedness. Your mother’s raised you well. I’m impressed to see your position on this and I think they would be too. If I’m being honest, I’m pleasantly surprised. I was prepared for being told to “go jump” by a few.

Adam, I’m not necessarily for censorship either, in the strict sense of the word. And when I’m in the men’s locker room, my language isn’t something of which my mother would be proud. But like Matt stated, there is a time and a place, and we should be mindful this isn’t the men’s locker room.

I just feel fly fishing is a worthy pastime and one I’d like to encourage my kids to participate in, free from the junk found everywhere else.

It should be obvious to anyone reading this thread what sets this community apart from other online communities. :)

[Digger]

Jeeez :roll:

[Amador]

I understand where you are all comming from, but you better get used to it. The Term "fish Porn" is becoming as well used as "backcast'. I have seen a section in Fly Fisherman magazine called "Fish Porn", I attended a presentation by a very well respected fly fisherman a while ago, where he said "let's move on to the Fish Porn". I am not saying that you are all in the wrong for feeling the way you do, but as the great Bob Dylan once said "times- they are a changin". According to Winter Run Ron's definition the word "porn" is an obscene writing or picture. Well, here is a definition of obscene from the same dictionary- "designed to incite to lust or depravity. Doesn't that relate to Fish? Don't let those sex mongers steal a perfectly good word!!

[Rick J]

Not to make light but I gotta think this is going overboard. The word may have bad connotations but it is not s swear word and the post to which it was attached was a great post about a great show!!

I really think that political correctness can be carried too far. This is a very common word and if this is the worst word a kid hears then he is living in a very different world than most kids.

[JT]

Thank you Ron for your remarks. I definitely agree with you on this one. I actually stopped watching TV a few years ago, because things are getting out of hand (I still watch A's games, though). I'm not a dad yet, but I will be come late November. I don't want my kids being exposed to this kind of stuff. Sure, the word "porn" is used differently here. But I would hate to see my kids do a google search on "fish porn," because it was something they read on one of the web sites that I read all of the time. I'm sure you can all imagine what kinds of sites they would come up with.

[WinterrunRon]

Hey, Rick,

Certainly entitled to you opinion and I respect that you’re willing to state a different one, but I think you’ve missed my point. Let me try to be more clear.

It’s (I’m) not about political correctness.

I don’t know what post you’re referring to since I’m just referring, in general, to the fact that I’ve been seeing the word more often here. We didn’t used to. But I tried to state my reasons why I thought we, as a membership, could consider limiting our use of it here. If you don’t agree, that’s alright with me.

Funny thing is, it’s exactly the “bad connotations” you refer too I’m concerned with. I’m much less opposed to everyday swear words being written here. Every kid hears them/reads them, you can’t get away from it. But the word we’re discussing is a graphical/visual one anyway you slice it, perhaps common for you in your home, but not in my home.

We do live in a very different world, and what we write online has much farther reaching implications than what was said, written, displayed and done in the MEN'S locker room when you and I were growing up. The difference?... only MEN were in it and it usually didn’t leave the MEN”S locker room.

I think JT and Matt, the younger guys, really understand this concept best. Do a google search on the word fish p@#$ and click on a few of the resulting links. See what you come up with. Then imagine my kids doing it out of curiosity to find out what it means since they don't know. It ain’t pretty. Would you care to explain it to them? I’d rather do the cowardly thing and avoid having to do any explaining at all; that’s all I’m saying. :)

Amador,

My point is, we can accept not to get used to it. It’s a choice, as Ken stated. We don’t have to be sheep just because it’s popular, or cool, or the trend or whatever. We can choose to reject it.

BTW, it wasn’t my definition, I cut and pasted from the online dictionary. And it’s okay with me if you take the definition of a definition of a definition until you find an acceptable definition. Whatever floats your boat!

‘nuff said. That’s as clear as I can be.

Gone fishin… I’ll try and post a report after the weekend. :D

PS. Congrats JT! It’ll change your life for the better in ways you’ve never imagined! :P

[briansII]

Hey, Rick,


I think JT and Matt, the younger guys, really understand this concept best. Do a google search on the word fish p@#$ and click on a few of the resulting links. See what you come up with. Then imagine my kids doing it out of curiosity to find out what it means since they don't know. It ain’t pretty. Would you care to explain it to them? I’d rather do the cowardly thing and avoid having to do so myself, that’s all I’m saying. :)


Well, I don't want to nit pick here, BUT..... :) If you actually do a Google search on "fish porn", and you have your settings right, you _shouldn't_ find any links to porn websites. Go to preferences, and select, "Use strict filtering". This is a public service message for the other parents out there. :)

As for the term fish porn, I think it's a liberal media plot, to overthrow the right-wing stranglehold on this country. :lol: :lol: :wink:

brians

[WinterrunRon]

Thanks, Brians. But "preferences" from what pull-down menu? Little more hand-holding needed here... sorry.

[mr. 3 wt.]

Not to make light but I gotta think this is going overboard. The word may have bad connotations but it is not s swear word and the post to which it was attached was a great post about a great show!!

I really think that political correctness can be carried too far. This is a very common word and if this is the worst word a kid hears then he is living in a very different world than most kids.


I agree with Rick J. You see worse words spray painted on walls down Highway 50. This is the real world guys, quite being such weenies!

[Frank Alessio]

Wow.... Up to now I did not think too much of the term... But now that I have been thinking about it.... That is a really DUMB phrase.. I do not Know anyone who uses it.. And I am not stuck behind this Computer.. I work Part time For Sportsmans Warehouse... I have heard the term GET ER DONE though.... Ron is not asking a lot... This is a very nice Board... I will do my part to keep it that way...... Frank

[Digger]

Not to make light but I gotta think this is going overboard. The word may have bad connotations but it is not s swear word and the post to which it was attached was a great post about a great show!!

I really think that political correctness can be carried too far. This is a very common word and if this is the worst word a kid hears then he is living in a very different world than most kids.

It is going overboard, it's creating policy, which is politics

What’s the next word? Can I not use orgasmic either?
Of course that's Kathy's fav. describing cheesecake, but I can easily adopt to describe a fishing experience.

Censorship is a mine field I would rather we not try to navigate. I’ve posted on this board since its very early beginnings and I've felt the chosen words here were very seldom out of line. The right time and place is subjective and differs among individuals.

As was said elsewhere, when you’re posting, it’s far different from face to face communication, so when we start limiting words that can be used (for any reason), we are limiting our ability to fully express and likewise be totally understood with full enthusiasm. Let’s face it, emoticons only do so much.

Granted the generally accepted connotation is sexual, however not posted here is another definition of pornography; from my Merriam Websters Collegiate dictionary, definition #3: “the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction “ it speaks nothing of sexual content.

[Gregg Machel]

Thanks, Brians. But "preferences" from what pull-down menu? Little more hand-holding needed here... sorry.
Ron,
I will make a few assumptions here. I am guessing you are using a PC with Windows and Internet Explorer as your browser. I will also guess that you have the latest update of Internet Explorer. That being said ...

Open up your browser and press alt-t, you will come to the tools menu.
Click on Internet Options
Click on the Content Tab
Click on Parental Controls
Follow the prompts here and you should be able to setup controls to meet your needs.
If this is not enough of doesn't meet your needs, there are programs out there that are made for making web surfing safer for kids. Nothing is perfect, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Let me know if you need anymore help here. The web is my business! :)

[WinterrunRon]

Great, Gregg, Thank you for taking the time. I'll try what you suggested and see how that works. Your assumptions were correct.

Let's see, a guy with a screen name mr 3 wt is calling others "weenies"? : :lol:

And I'm not surprised by your position, Digger, with a signature line such as yours, but I do respect it. And I do respect you’re right to differ and appreciate you stating your position on the subject for us reading this post to consider.

But I disagree that I'm setting, or trying to set policy. I simply offered a reminder and asked that one consider their choice of words when posting here, keeping in mind we do have younger viewers. That’s all. Nothing more. But it works both ways: Are you setting policy that we should not consider what’s reasonable online language here? And I’m curious; what membership to you know that doesn't have a set of goals/standards/rules/objectives/code of ethics?

You, too, are welcomed to search dictionary after dictionary for a different definition of a common word that has a generally accepted meaning and do what you want, say what you want, write what you want if it’s that important to you in order to get your point across. I’ll work around it. We all will. I, for one, wouldn’t want to be the one responsible for “limiting your ability to fully express and likewise be totally understood with full enthusiasm”! “Adopt” away in any manner you see fit if you feel the need. :D

Ciao. Gotta go get the drift boat hooked up. Leaving this morning for 3 days to pursue other important issues! :evil:

PS. I love cheesecake, but doubt your wife? would describe it in that manner in front of your kids? Maybe not? (sorry, don't know your family makup).

Jeeez :rolleyes:

[sculpin]

Ron
I agree with you about the label of fish pictures and have no idea how it got started. The title is becoming ingrained in the flyfishing arena though. Take a look at page 10 of Fly Rod and Reel magazine. There is a big add for Fish P--- at their web site.

[mike N]

Good greif. :roll:

MN

[briansII]

Thanks, Brians. But "preferences" from what pull-down menu? Little more hand-holding needed here... sorry.

This is specific to Google settings, and not the same as Ron's help. Open the Google page. Just to the right of the type in search box, is "Preferences"(under Advance Search, and above Language Tools). Click it, and scroll down to "SafeSearch Filtering". You'll have 3 options. I choose to use the "Strict" option, since I don't want my almost 5 y.o. stumbing into something she shouldn't see.

briansII

[mr. 3 wt.]

[quote="WinterrunRon"] Let's see, a guy with a screen name mr 3 wt is calling others "weenies"? : :lol:



I can call myself mr 12 wt if you prefer.

I was being nice using the word "weenies", if I used the word that I really wanted to use I would have been deleted immediately. :evil:

See you on the "T" mr winter! :wink:

[pgw]

I hope you're not going to be using one of those Obscene Centerpin float outfits on the T :D

I agree though, this discussion is sweating the small stuff...

Paul

[mr. 3 wt.]

[quote="pgw"]I hope you're not going to be using one of those Obscene Centerpin float outfits on the T :D

? don't know what your talking about Mr PGW. :wink: Remember, my name is mr 3 wt. :D

[HC]

Ron, Your concerns are valid, your response thoughtful. I find it unecessary to use that word to describe such a beautiful creature as an innocent fish. Also, I don't belive any disrespect was intended by the poster, just poor word choice on a public forum. We all learn everyday and the aged, like me, are not immune to a little guidance sometimes. I Just aim comments as high as I can. HC

[Adam Grace]

I think that "Obscene Centerpin float outfits" is a reference to strike indicators, I wondered about this choice of words myself.

This post is getting a little ugly, lets try to stop the personal attacks guys.......I know, easier said than done.

I sincerely hope that this board doesn't turn out as a negative place, I would miss it.

[Digger]

And I'm not surprised by your position, Digger, with a signature line such as yours,


niiice, says a lot.

[Rick J]

I have been on the Klamath for three days and this thing is still going on - I can't beleive it??

Look at the context the word was used with - it is fish - that has to tell you it was not meant in any bad connotation. In fact I think it is a pretty descriptive word for what Adam was talking about - and the was a fish feeding frenzy or dare I say a feeding orgy - words can have bad connotations but it really depends on where and how they are used - when I first saw the post any bad connotation was the furthest thing from my mind until an issue was raised.


So more on the Klamath later!

[Gregg]

Keep it going! I'm easily entertained...

[Adam Grace]

Gregg, good to see you on the board, you're a funny guy.

[Rick J]

I would hope that Ron or anyone else will never feel the need to block this site from their kids. Can't think of a better fishing BB site anywhere with a great group of folks.

Sure we all have opinions (and if they are differnt than mine, they are wrong!! Unless it is Bill and then I may reconsider :) )

If nothing else, Ron's post should give eveyone pause and think about what they post. It is so easy to fire off a electronic post in haste and sometimes in anger.

So Ron - did you go fishing and did you catch anything??

Best regards,
Rick

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I guess we are all a little different but in general I think we are pretty much in the same family here of people who enjoy water, nature, fish and others who have the same loves.

I think we should be thinking about what we post here because we might have some young fly fishers reading this.

[Rob]

WinterrunRon

Thank you !!!!!!!!!!!

Your a brave man !! :shock:

Remember what happened to me when i mentioned something like this !! :roll: :roll: :roll:

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[OceanSunfish]

I agree with Ron. I'm a parent and I'm tired of all the violence, etc. and how our society has become desensitized to bad language, etc.

[jaybird]

Wow! This thing picked up some steam huh? I guess its a good thing that all people dont think the same way.

I'm still with ya all the way Ron.

Jay

[Adam Grace]

Jay, PLEASE tell me that you didn't fan the fires of this post with the topic of ABORTION! For the love of you know who....this isn't the place for that type of discussion.

Let's try to stick to fishing related issues or we are going to lose some great board members, I won't put their names out, but I've been contacted about how ridiculous some of these posts have become and they have threatened to leave the board..................and to tell you the truth the thought has crossed my mined as well.

Jay, you're a nice dude, but please leave these social and ethical issues alone :roll: We don't need this negative post continuing.

[jaybird]

sorry about that. A little frustrated sitting here in the keys with nuthin to do. Post edited.

J

[Gregg Machel]

At the risk of prolonging this thread anymore, here are my thoughts: I like most of you have my own political and ethical viewpoints, but I will never post anything about them here since I know that some people do not share my thoughts. Those that know me in person probably know where I stand, but it's not worth "fanning the flames" on a messageboard where so much can be misinterpreted. I've seen a few posts that have pissed me off here, but they all had to do with non-flyfishing. I took this up, but did it in private, not on a public thread. Things got worked out and nobody but the parties involved knew anything about it.

I echo everyone who has said this board is great because it focuses on flyfishing. Back when I was more active here (I still come here, but I am mostly a lurker), I tried another board in our area, but there was so much politics and personal attacks that I left after 2 posts and never looked back.

I don't think this board is in danger of going off the deep end, just a few people needed to do a little venting and let off some steam. If I was to give any advice ... for those willing to listen ... Just take what has been said here and use the old saying, a little courtesy goes a long way, and focus on why we are all here ... Fly Fishing! :) :fish:

[WinterrunRon]

I, personally, don’t find it necessary to post only those thoughts/ideas/suggestions in which I feel others will be in agreement. If I did, I probably wouldn’t post at all, and be like the 2111 viewers of this post thus far who have decided not to participate in the discussion by offering their opinion, one way or the other.

It’s not comfortable to be disagreed with and everyone has their own level of tolerance. But if we took issues up in private that we felt had the capacity to project a view other than being in line with our own, there probably wouldn't be much to post and, IMHO, defeat the purpose of having and open forum discussion arena, thus curbing the learning/growing process.


I think we should be thinking about what we post here because we might have some young fly fishers reading this.

No one is more surprised than I to see the interest this post has created. And I really thought this thread would end after the quoted post above. After all, it’s all I was attempting to say for everyone to consider and directed at no one in particular. It wasn’t meant to do anything more than have us think about what we write and who might be viewing it here.

And, thus far, I’ve enjoyed everyone’s enthusiasm regarding this topic, and appreciated those who were willing to post a reply feeling as I do, and especially those that don’t. If it ends here, terrific; if it goes on, terrific. Makes no difference to me.

But one has to wonder; suppose Mr. Kiene had started a post with his quote above, would it have received the same level of opposition? Or agreement?