Upside Down Deceiver...... riding, well 'upside down' Ugh

[OceanSunfish]

The Deceiver style pattern is by far my favorite pattern for stripers.

In the spirit of C&R, I switched over to tying them on jig hooks. I like the fact that almost all fish hooked with the 60 degree jig hook is on the upper lip away from the gill rakers.

After tying a bunch of my favorite color color combinations last winter, I finally got out on the water last week and to my surprise, they rode hook down. I guess I didn't distribute the materials properly and there is not enough weight down below.

I originally epoxied the heads and I don't add weight like dumb bell eyes.

I am now experimenting by retrofitting the finished versions by adding straight pieces of lead with epoxy to the bottom of the head in hopes that enough weight will get the darn things to ride hook up. It looks like the deceiver has "5 o'clock shadow", but I'm sure it will catch fish and be functional, which is what matters most.

Any other ideas to get the darn things to ride hook up.

I guess when I get around to tying another batch, I should make sure most of the material is on the bottom side of the hook opposite the point, not 50-50.

Thanks.

[Jgoding]

I've had the same difficulties even with using dumbell eyes. I typically stray on the smaller side when weighting things and if you overdress a fly even slightly it can throw the balance off.

[Adam Grace]

The heavy weighted eyes are the ballast for a clouser. A clouser minnow streamer is not a clouser without the weighted eyes! Without the eyes you are simply tying a deceiver style fly, that lacks enough ballast to swim point up, as you found out.

You can try to tie in a large top wing that will catch water like a parachute, but that is a much more difficult type of fly to tie.

[OceanSunfish]

The heavy weighted eyes are the ballast for a clouser. A clouser minnow streamer is not a clouser without the weighted eyes! Without the eyes you are simply tying a deceiver style fly, that lacks enough ballast to swim point up, as you found out.

You can try to tie in a large top wing that will catch water like a parachute, but that is a much more difficult type of fly to tie.

But I am tying a "deceiver" style pattern <grin>

I know there are people out there that have successfully tied a deceiver that will ride hook up. I need to do some more R&D with placement of materials on the hook.

As for the ones I've tied already, I'll just have to experiment with some added weight and epoxy.

Bottom line, I don't like to use a "jig" style fly all the time. There are times when it's not the 'ticket'.

Thanks.

[Darian]

Hmmm,.... Kinda sounds like you're trying to swim upstream here.... A Deceiver has the collar of deer hair wrapped around the shank, making it difficult to accomplish the hook attitude you want. :? :? :? Maybe you should consider tying a Half/Half (Deceiver/Clouser) :?: :?: :?:

[OceanSunfish]

There have been others that have successfully tied deceiver type patterns that ride hook up using 60 degree jig hooks.

Also, I've tied "spinster" type deceivers where the small spinner is enough weight to get the 'hook up' action.

It's just a matter of R&D and experimentation, and unfortunately, I don't have the time anymore to test things out on the water. What I need is a swimming pool. :D

Thanks.

[Adam Grace]

OceanSunfish, Oooops :oops: , my mistake, I thought that I read a clouser not a deceiver, I feel sheepish :oops:

Try tying in a doubled-up piece of lead down the length of the shank, on the opposite side of the point. Next I would tie in more bucktail in the top wing and a lighter more sparse amount on the bottom.

Once again, sorry about the misunderstanding.

[OceanSunfish]

Hey Adam,

No need for the apology. Most of the time I check this BB, it's after a long day of work or sessions with my children, etc. So I'm usually not 'seeing straight' anyway.

I used lead, but I haven't had time or the facility to test out the retrofitted patterns.

Thanks again.