power pro backing to fly line knots ??

[fallriverfish]

I am using 50# backing on a bluewater reel. I need to connect the backing to the end of the fly line. Can anyone suggests some ways of doing this ?

[sculpin]

I have been making loops in Power Pro using a coaxial loop made by using a piece of 20lb braided mono and loctite 406 adhesive that was developed by Max Garth . If you search Dan Blanton's site you will find it . It works great and is 100% if done right . I have tested several to be sure . I like the loop big enough to pass a spooled fly line through it. Basically the loop is made by threading the PP through the braid and making a double catch loop secured by a drop of Loctite 406 . I use the drop of 406 at the catch and on the end after making sure the braid is tight . Here is a link to a loop by Dave Whitlock .
http://flyfisherman.com/skills/dwnoknot/index2.html

Al Burr has a line splicing and building design booklet out with some interesting methods in it I haven't tried yet . He uses Loctite 414.
http://www.flyfishusa.com/newsletter/082006/


Mark

[Tony Buzolich]

Fall, You know there's always more than one way to skin a cat and the previous post sure looks pretty but I think it might be a bit time consuming, especially if you're doing a repair or changing a line while on the water or at your hotel room.

I've been doing a lot of gel spun (Power Pro) to line unions lately for guys getting ready for trips to warmer places.

What I do is quite simple starting with the Power Pro. First make a loop. You can do a Double Surgeon or ideally a Bimini Loop but either will work. Make it large enough to double over itself and still have plenty to work with.

Take this loop and double it over with another Double Surgeon. This will give you four strands of line or two even loops. By doing this you will have created a larger bearing surface on the fly line where it makes contact. By having more surface contact at this point you will have less chance of the Power Pro cutting in to the fly line.

At this point you can use the loop-to-loop connection described above or you can tie an Albright Knot of which I prefer.

Take the four strands of the Power Pro and pull them together as if it were one. Make your normal Albright with the four strands wrapping around the fly line and pull everything gently together.

This makes a small neat knot with plenty of bearing surface so as to prevent the Power Pro from cutting the fly line itself.

Practice making loops first with the gel spun, and then doubling them over to make two out of one. You'll get the hang of it and it's quite easy once you've done it a few times.

Hope this helps,
TONY

[fallriverfish]

Thank you for the replies. I appreciate it.

[Tony Buzolich]

Hi Carl,

Some folks use a Bimini all the time (I do anyway). But a lot of people out there either are afraid to try it or give up after their first failure.

If you do it with another person a few times and learn together, it really isn't hard to learn. I use it at the shop all the time and have my customers help by holding their hands together like they're praying. I put the first wrap (loop) around their hands to get started, and this makes for good interaction and easier learning.

Anyone wanting to learn this knot can stop by the shop any time.
TONY

[bubzilla]

Fall,

One important thing to know about making connections between fly lines and gel spun backing is that knots in gel spun are significantly weaker than they are in other materials. That is to say, while a certain knot may be 100 percent line strength in monofilament, that same knot will not be anywhere near close to 100 percent in gel spun. Your knots are always going to be your weakest link in saltwater fishing. And, while many fly anglers will not be upset by the fact that their 50 lb. spectra is really only as strong as the knot that will break at 60 percent of that poundage, i.e., 30 lb., given the fact their class tippet is not likely to exceed 20 lb. break strength, others will want to increase that margin for error by using a stronger connection.

The connection that Sculpin describes is the only true 100 percent connection described. That is, that connection is as strong at the line itself, i.e., 50 lb. If you post on Blanton's, Max Garth will likely respond himself.

While there is some controversy over the ideal number of twists on a bimini in spectra lines, the 70 twist bimini is recommended by many experts. Depending on the source, the breaking strength of the 70 twist bimini in gel spun lines is rated as high as 88 percent of the line strength. That's not bad, really. It's not the 100 percent strength that you get from a 20 twist bimini in mono, but then gel spun and mono are apples and oranges when it comes to knots.

Making the initial loop with a Double Surgeon as described in the third example should provide the weakest of the links presented, as the Double Surgeon's is not a 100 percent knot even in mono (it's generally cited as somewhere in the neighborhood of 90 to 95 percent in mono depending on the source). That's not to say it would necessarily be too weak to fish with--in fact, probably quite the contrary--but it wouldn't be as strong as the other options. Doubling over the first loop with a Double Surgeon's knot as described--thereby increasing the surface area of your connection to the mono loop on your fly line--is definiltely the way to go, however. Even though the Double Surgeon's isn't 100 percent, it doesn't really matter in that case as it's being tied in a doubled line rather than a single line. As for the Albright, I would be a little skeptical of the strength--don't really have anything but a hunch there, though--but the main problem I would see would be that you couldn't readily change lines like you can with a loop. When you're fishing with big saltwater reels that have spare spools that cost more than your airfare to somewhere nice to fish and are so complicated to take apart you need a degree in engineering to do it even under the best of conditions, changing lines on a single spool becomes more of a necessity than an option. Having the loop-to-loop connection is the only way to go then.

If strength is really your concern, then the "best" method described was the one Sculpin listed first. I know for a fact he has spent more hours than sanity would allow testing loops, and the coaxial method really is the strongest. Second would be the 70 twist bimini with the loop doubled using a double surgeon's knot. If you go with the coaxial and for some reason you have a line break off, you can always tie the bimini out on the water. It's not really that hard of a knot once you learn how to do it, and you need to learn how to do it for proper saltwater leaders anyway.

Check out this example of a conncetion as well.

[/url]http://www.ausfish.com.au/harro/knots.shtml