Advice on starting the kids

[Mike Churchill]

My two youngest daughters (ages 7 and 10) are gung ho to start flyfishing (both have conventional angling experience). I assume that they'll take casting instruction better from someone else besides me, but I could use some advice:

1. Rods: I've got two 9-foot five weights. Will the kids be better off with shorter/lighter rods? (leaving aside my desire to acquire a 3-weight for my own use...:evil:)

If new rods are in order, any suggestions for inexpensive but decent combo outfits (or am I better off buying a TFO rod or two)?

2. Any suggestions for local casting instructors with experience teaching kids? :?

3. Recommendations for places to catch bluegills close by? (I'm in the Pocket area, south of downtown.)

4. Any other tips for keeping the kids happy and me sane when they keep tangling the line, casting tailing loops, etc? :roll:

Thanks in advance for your help,

Mike

[BigBuddha]

Mike, my older kids are 12 and 13. Both started at about 7-8 with just a pick up and lay down cast. As long as you have patience and get them on fish right away I bet they would enjoy learning from their dad more than anything. Just remember that you probably won't get much fishing in for the beginning as you will be mending leaders, tying on flies, etc., but the payoff is tremendous in the end. Both still love it and my boy (which is the 12 year old) has actually taken a second and a third at the ISE Best in the West Fly Casting Junior division. He can regularly cast a 6 wt. 70 feet. You don't have to get them expensive equipment, but remember that you want them to enjoy it so get them stuff that you wouldn't mind fishing with. Mine started with 8'6" 5 wt. rods I think the Discovery Series Sage. Tony Yap in San Jose is an old friend of mine and the kids really love him whenever they see him at the shows so I was thinking of booking a lesson with him, but I am sure they would love to learn from their dad more than anything.

[Mike Churchill]

I'm already used to not getting much fishing in myself when the kids are along tossing bait. :roll: (Took the two of them and a friend to Lake Amador two weeks ago to expose them to some big trout. Between the three of them, they caught a 5-pounder, a 2.5-pounder, and two 11-inchers, plus broke off another big one. When I finally broke out the fly rod after all that activity, I didn't even get a strike.... :shock: )

The 7-year old is my major fishing buddy--she's ready, willing and able to go anytime I am. Even better, offering to take her with me guarantees a hall pass from the wife. :D

Good point about keeping the casting as simple as possible to start with.

Thanks

[Rob]

I would use a 7' - 8' 3 or 4 wt for kids . Use as light a rod as you can afford. Also Jeff Putnam is the man for lessons. He is very good with kids. My boys started Flyfishing at the age your kids and Jeff was great. :D They both had 2 tession with jeff and can out fish and cast me . Also make sure they catch some fish or they may loose interest fast. Blue gill are great for starting kids into fly fishing. There are some ponds off hwy 80 above Auburn that are full of Blue Gill . Take the Cliiper Gap Exit and there is a pond on the righty side that's great for kids . You can fish off the Dam and there is plenty of room for a back cast.

[lee s.]

Go home while they still want to stay. :wink: Bring plenty snacks and "other to do" stuff to cover the time till then. 8)
.....lee s.

[flyfshrmn]

Think back to your own experience starting out and what was bad and what was good. My dad never gave me any formal instruction, just handed me a rod, got me through the basics of getting the line in the air and left me to it. If the kid wants to enough, he or she will teach themselves. Keep some good instructional books and videos handy, as well as the fly mags. I was more interested in the tying at first, but I started tying at age 5. My sons started with a fly rod at about age 7 and both are decent casters and better fishermen. The important thing is not to push too hard on casting form, just get them casting and let them fish. Kids are about fishing and they will not, as a general rule, care too much about casting mechanics. It's more important to teach presentation, and careful, accurate casting in fishing situations. Once they start catching fish, if they like it, they'll teach themselves. Encouragement and advice are far better than formal casting instruction. This applies to more than just fly fishing. My boys taught themselves to fish on a Yellowstone trip at age five. I gave them spinning equipment, showed them the basics of casting, basic knots and retrieval mechanics. In six days they went from the usual early frustration of not being able to get the lure out in front of them to making long accurate casts and catching 30-50 fish/day. That early success is what makes a kid an angler. Carrying it over into fly fishing is a little more difficult, especially when you are dealing with rivers, wading, hatches, nymphs, etc. The most important thing is to have success with each progressively more difficult stage. As far as equipment goes, good basic gear is all you need to start with. My sons started with a couple of sale rods, fairly stiff grahphite six weights. One of them is still using that original rod, despite gifts of much better equipment. I learned on a horrid old solid glass. But equipment doesn't matter that much. By age twelve I could cast that old beater a hundred feet accurately and catch fish: trout, bass, bluegill. Modern rods are much easier to learn on. I would give a beginner an inexpensive graphite six weight, with a composite reel. Kids are going to be tough on reels, so starting them with a machined aluminum is not a good idea (sometimes I wonder if it's a good idea for me because I've managed to beat the crap out of a couple of good reels, lately). Teach them simple, good knots,: blood knot, clinch knot, nail knot, and don't worry about tapered leaders.

If it all works out and they stick with it, you'll have a lifelong fishing partner, and gift giving should be very easy and intuitive.

[Jgoding]

My dad (flyfsrmn) explained it well I think. Teach them the basics to get them started and let them work from there. I remember him teaching us the knots first then tapering leaders then casting. My brother still uses his original rod and flyline (which has never been cleaned/treated) if you can imagine that (23 years old). Hell, I would still probably use my rod but the top section is hiding out in some mountains somewhere as it blew out of the truck one day... The price is still visible as it was printed on the rod.... $8.99....

I do believe the most important thing my dad taught us was how to read the water and explained why the fish would be there. If it wasn't for that I doubt I would catch the few fish that I do :shock:

Just try not to over do it. Dad explained just the basics to us and it was up to us to figure out or ask about the rest. I think that's an important step as if you try to get into all the little technical details about casting etc... you might discourage them.

The "old-man" can still out fish me though... he proved it last year on the American on his first shad outting.... at least I tied the fly.....(he taught me that too)...

Jeff

[Mike Churchill]

Thanks for the suggestions.

The girls have had spinning rods in their hands since they were 3 or 4 and know their way around bait, bluegills and trout. (the 10-yr. old caught a 2.5 pounder and helped a friend catch a 5+ pounder at Lake Amador last month) :D :evil:

I'm well aware of the "short attention span theater" issue, but I have clearly neglected "reading the water" because I have mostly taken them lake fishing. :oops:

Today I paid a visit to Kiene's to replace the 5-weight I lost from my float tube at Amador in January and pick up a 3-weight for use on bluegill and small streams. That gives me two 9-foot 5-weights and a 7'6" 3-weight to work with. Then we took a trip to the park and started them on casting the 3-weight in between kicking the soccer ball and playing on the playground.

Tomorrow morning we're going to give Arden Pond a try. Wish me luck... :shock:

[Cal]

Lots of great advice.

You might also consult the book:

Fly Fishing with Children: A Guide for Parents by Philip Brunquell (available through Amazon).

A review on the Amazon website with which I compleely agree:

Brunquell's book gives practical, no-nonesense advice to any beginning fly-fisher. He suggests good quality gear while steering readers away from the expensive excesses that can come with any new sport, especially fly-fishing. He has a very subtle sense of humor which comes through nicely, making for a great read even if you never want to touch a pole. A generous appendix full of naturalist and conserationist "road quizzes", fly-tying instructions, and even sections devoted to snacks and beverages most convenient and healthy to bring to the river with you make this a sure-fire winner.

[SteelieD]

Hey Mike,

How'd it go at the pond today? Hope you did well!

[Mike Churchill]

No fish, but I'd call it a successful trip: a little over an hour of fishing, only one short mope (by the 10-yr old) over frustration with not casting perfectly, nobody got hooked, and the flies ended up in the water almost all the time. :)

Most importantly, they want to go back. :D

At this point, if I can get them on a small stream without too many bushes or trees, they could probably catch fish. 8)

Bonus: I love my new TFO 3-weight. :evil:

[SteelieD]

Sounds like a good day!

Which TFO 3 wt did you get? I am thinking of getting one as well.

[Mike Churchill]

SteelieD,

It's the 7'6" two piece with the IM6 blank. I can't remember which "series" it is, but at $89 at Kiene's it's a great deal. (The TFO website lists it at $99.) :)

Unfortunately, a tube is too much to ask for at that price, so I need to go buy a 4-foot piece of PVC tubing and some screw on caps... which will be functional, if not stylish. :oops:

[JT]

If you're looking for a good spot to take kids, there's a little lake (pond) in Rockville Park in Fairfield. The lake is pretty small and it's about a 10 minute hike. I've caught bluegill, redear, crappie, bass, and even golden shiners (baitfish). It's ideal for those who are learning how to catch fish on a fly rod. I once took a group of boy scouts up there on a fishing trip. I also take my wife and brother-in-law there. They love it, because they can catch fish consistently. If you go, make sure you fish the second pond. The first one dries up every year, so it can't support a fish population.

[Ed Wahl]

Don't be embarrassed about the pvc rod tube. My friends and I have been using them for years. Make sure you put some foam padding in the ends to protect from the pounding they'll be taking. Slip caps are lighter to use but can be a hassle to remove sometimes. I had one for many years that also put in quite a few miles as a walking staff. Eventually I traded it and the rod for another rod, then a few years later I got together with a group of guys backpacking for some Golden Trout. This guy whom I never met pulls my old case out of his car, it's still doing double duty as a walking staff, and now it's been to Europe and back! Whenever I have to ship a rod I buy some pvc or abs pipe to put it in, even baggage handlers can't hurt it. U.S.P.S. tried but failed. Totally tore up the cardboard tube that the factory put it in but the rod was safe. Ed

[flyfshrmn]

PVC rod tubes are the best, even if unstylish. I have several in different sizes. Glue a piece of foam into the cap ends: the cheap sleeping pad type foam works best, cut them to length, glue on the cap ends and you have an indestructible case that doubles as a hiking staff and doesn't leave your hands coated with black guck like the aluminum ones. For multiple rods, use a four inch pipe. Spinning, casting and bait rods are a little tougher: you have to size the pipe so the gathering guide will slide through the screw cap or you can use a slip cap and tape or set screws.

[Ed Wahl]

sent a P.M. Ed

[lee s.]

What was most comfortable for the kid's casting, the 9'ers or the 7'6"?
.....lee s.

[Mike Churchill]

My seven year old definitely had an easier time with the short 3-weight. Part of that is she is small for her age and has very small hands. :(

The 10-yr. old didn't express a preference.