Can anyone explain this to me?

[WinterrunRon]

From the river bed of the American, this is probably 80+lb braided line, a 3 oz lead weight, and who knows how big that treble gaff is.

Can someone please explain to me what is in the mind of the individual using such a rig? What am I missing here… where’s the thrill?

Ron

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k63/WinterrunRon/IMG_0558.jpg

[mike-n]

food around the corner? At least until that person lost their rig. :-)

MN

[sculpin]

Ron I think you found sombodies after dark fishing hole and gear .


Mark

[JerryInLodi]

Ron, it sounds like you should get in touch with Carlo Proto or stop by the DFG office and get some CalTIP signs and stick them up at prominent places along the American.

The signs will hopefully introduce a little paranoia in the poacher and encourage others to call when they see this kind of stuff happening.

[slipjoint]

From the river bed of the American, this is probably 80+lb braided line, a 3 oz lead weight, and who knows how big that treble gaff is.

Can someone please explain to me what is in the mind of the individual using such a rig? What am I missing here… where’s the thrill?

Ron

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k63/WinterrunRon/IMG_0558.jpg

Great - i knew someone would find my rig - i'll e-mail you mymailing address - thanks in advance - t

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

People snag salmon to eat.

People snag salmon, cut them open and take out the roe and then throw them back. This is so they will have some salmon roe for bait for Steelhead.

That is an illegal salmon snagging rig.

Some of this goes on at night.

[SteelieD]

That's sad.

[flygolf]

Ron, You found my rig!! :D can we meet up so I can get it back.

I once called CalTip on a guy I saw on the Cosumnes. He was throwing out what looked like a 6" spoon with a huge treble hook on it. He would cast out in a fan pattern and rip the lure back like he was swinging a tennis racket. He was probably ripping the lure thru 5'-6' of water each time. Some punk kid in a very distinctive boat. Unfortunatley the CalTip operator couldn't really understand that the river was the border between Sac and SanJoaquin counties. I got the feeling that they were so strapped that myreport just went down on a piece of paper. I porbably should have just yelled at the kid. I saw him from a little hiking trail along the river he never even knew I was their, he was certainly paranoid, kept looking up and down the river. Unortunately I could see a few fish hanging from a stringer. Life is full of total scumbags!

[JerryInLodi]

davkrat, Unfortunately there are se few wardens and they are spread so thin that an immediate response to a CalTIP call shouldn't be expected. However the warden in the area will receive the information and possibly patrol the area in the next few weeks hoping for repeat action from the culprit.

Scumbags like the one you mentioned don't just operate once. They're repeat offenders and repeat the same patterns over and over. Calling CalTIP with the information you provided including descriptions, license plates, etc, increases the chance of their being apprehended in the future.

Oh, and guys, if you can't remember the CalTIP number, look on your fishing license. It's printed there!

Thanks Jerry,
I know this kid was a repeat offender. He obviously had his technique down and he also obviously knew that what he was doing was illegal. I don't think he knew the trail was their or perhaps people don't use it very often. There is really only one boat lauch in that area, and his boat was definately easy to pick out. Hopefully they got him.

[fallriverfish]

DFG is really short staffed but word is that will change in the next year or 2. I have approached several anglers (poachers) over the years and luckily have not had any violent interactions. It has been close.
It is safer to take pictures and get license plate #'s even if you have to drive to a put in or take out to get it done. There are too many people packin heat these days and you really don't want to have anything serious happen.
If DFG is serious about following through they will most likely make you write a letter recording your observations, they will ask you to make the letter out to the District Attorney in that county. They will use that letter in court against the violator.
Get as much information as you can. Pictures, descriptions, time of day, your location, vehicle and clothing identification. This may seem overboard but if you really want to make a change this is what must be done otherwise it is just second hand information that is hard to use in court.
Follow up with Cal Tip and get the name of the warden in the offending county. Once the wardens know you are on the team they will probabally foward their cell phone #'s to you so you can call immediately when you see this crap going down. They will know you and will respond to your call if they can.
Billy Downs
Poacher Harraser

[slipjoint]

if a guy is doing it for profit or what he thinks is sport - hang him - if his wife & kids are hungry thats another story - feed the family - we don't live in a perfect world where everyone has a job who wants one - or has a job that pays enough to feed the family - just the other side of the coin - i wouldn't kill a bear just to sell it bladder & claws but there are alot of folks out there that will - huge market - real world - t

I'm sorry if a guy has enough time to go out and poach a bear or a bunch of salmon at night they have enough time to get a 2nd job that would feed the family. You know how I put myself through college. I worked at a pizza place and took home extra pizza every night. The illegal wasting of animals just to feed a family is nonsense. We wouldn't have any wild animals left if everyone was allowed to live off the land. I have heard from numerous people that the area around Indian Valley has been completely wasted by people illegally substaining themselves off the land. I read an article a while back that specifically dealt with illegals who work pot groves on public lands. When agents find these groves they often find the carcasses of everything under the son from songbirds to deer. It is sad that this sort of tragedy of the commons takes place. People think they see all these resources and if they just take a little more than they are supposed to it won't have much effect but when a bunch of people start doing it those numbers really start to add up. Not to mention that this is the type of activity that antis pick up on and assume all sportsman are guilty of. Sorry rant over!

[WinterrunRon]

One year, I witnessed a guy just below the hatchery land and then shuffle a couple of steelhead to his car, then return to the river. I said something to him, which didn't alter his behavior, so I stopped fishing, walked into the DFG office and told them what I had seen.

A badged officer refused to do anything about it, stating under-staffing etc. I became incensed, raised my voice so the whole office could hear how irritated I was, stating to the effect that if they are not willing to investigate an in-progress violation occurring 300 yards away, what the hell is the badge for and that he should consider another line of work... and I left.

I returned to the river, fished a bit more, and upon walking to my car, observed the DFG warded confiscating the fish from the guy’s trunk and writing a $300 ticket.

He motioned for me to come over after releasing the offender, and apologized for the lip service. I thanked him for doing his job.

Moral to the story... squeaky wheel gets the grease! All this under-staffing and paperwork stuff gets in the way of doing the basic job, protecting the species by enforcing the laws!

Please don't be afraid to do something about the violations you witness. I never saw that guy again, but heard the story from many along the banks in subsequent days. That one incident had a broad and lasting effect. So make the effort and demand DFG do the same. The feeling you get is worth it!

Ron

[WinterrunRon]

I'm with you, Dave.

My roommates and I cut wood and sold it to put ourselves through college. Never crossed my mind to snag salmon, kill a bear or dear out of season for meat, obtain money for food by selling gall bladders, pot, bear claws, or anything else illegal, for that matter.

What's wrong with raising chickens, pigs, sheep, goats and having a garden? That’s what my grandparents did when they didn’t have a job that paid enough. No accpetable excuse for poaching, especially in the state of California.

One law for all, because... man can tolerate only those laws which he is willing to enforce!

Ron

[slipjoint]

The illegal wasting of animals just to feed a family is nonsense

************************************************** ****

sorry my friend but to me that is one of the dumbest statements i have ever heard - "JUST TO FEED A FAMILY"

lot of folks out there who doesn't have the brain power to go to college - my wife & I have worked with foster kids for years - many are brought into this world as drug babies - the facts show that when many of these kids turn 18 & go out on their own they end up homeless - no money - no food - no house - nothing - many of these folks do what ever it takes to get shelter & food - many of them if they had a full ride to college they couldn't do it - not everyone in this world is smart enough for higher education - i would guess on this board the most have a great education - just don't forget the thousands out there that don't have the ability to hold a good job - true there are some who have the ability but don't have the desire -

i myself would do what ever it takes to feed my family -

since you have a great job - expensive fishing gear - which you have work for & bough - how about getting involved in foster care & help eduacate some of these kids - 300,000 out there that need a mom & dad - see pix's of my family here -
http://www.picturetrail.com/tomhudson

[slipjoint]

What's wrong with raising chickens, pigs, sheep, goats and having a garden? That’s what my grandparents did when they didn’t have a job that paid enough. No accpetable excuse for poaching, especially in the state of California.
************************************************** **

you know it's very difficult to raise chickens - sheep & goats when you live in a cardboard box along side the feather river - then every spring the water comes up & wash's your shack & chickens away - your lucky to get out with your bicycle -

i'll shut up now & go away - getting a littly chilly out some of you might want to walk over & turn the heater up - other folks migh have to put another log on the fire but they won't be reading this rant will they - t

[David Lee]

i'll shut up now & go away - getting a littly chilly out some of you might want to walk over & turn the heater up - other folks migh have to put another log on the fire but they won't be reading this rant will they - t

Wake up a little cranky today , T ???

The way I see it .... if it's OK to break the law and take game out-of-season , poach , etc. .... then it's OK to sell dope , break into houses , strong-arm purses from old ladies ...... garbage like that .

I really believe that if someone can't afford to raise a family , perhaps birth-control is in order , not using kids as an excuse to snag Salmon , jacklight Deer , etc. . If what I've said is un-PC .... so be it .

I have less than a high-school education , no college , and no family wealth . What I do have is the ability to follow the rules and work my ass off for 10.00 bucks an hour . Well-heeled I ain't , but I don't expect the LAW to make exceptions for my situation . If I can follow the rules , then so can everyone .

I hope you don't take this as me being combative .... I've no wish to make any enemies - it's just my point of view . I think too many in this world make excuses for doing things they know are wrong . I don't make the rules , I don't much care for them most of the time , but I'd rather struggle w/ little $$$ then wind-up a convict .

I sleep well and have no problem looking in the mirror in the morning .

David :)

[fallriverfish]

This post is bringing up alot of social issues that we as fisherman care more about then our damn politicians. I think we need to talk with people and try to inform. You can tell if someone is sustaining themselves or are blatantly breaking the law. The guy trunk dumping at pacifica pier into his landcruiser can probabally afford to buy his food. The poor and homeless that is not for us to judge.

[slipjoint]

I sleep well and have no problem looking in the mirror in the morning

************************************************** **

i'll be the judge of that - post a pix please - BTW - the name of my boat is GrumpyII :lol:

[David Lee]

Uhhhh ..... never said the mirror wasn't broken !!

David :P

If the kid I saw on the river had the money to pay for a boat launch and the gas to motor 5 miles up the river he definately had the money to buy food. It always cracks me up when you see someone panhandling who is obviously drunk and has a pack of smokes. They can afford booze and cigarettes but not food, I guess that makes it alright to go poach a few salmon right. There is never any excuse for breaking a law, and if there was being lazy would be at the end of the list! I used to work at a gas station/minimart (again working my way through college) and I will never forget one lady came up with a half-gallon of the cheap-o vodka, a carton of cigarettes and dogfood. When the total was more than she had she decided to put back the dogfood and told me "I guess he can go one more day without food"! Of all the laws and "WHO" gets protection from them the absolute most important in my opinion are wild organisms. They are unable to speak up for themselves and therefore people believe that they can exploit them any way they want. I put poachers as the lowest form of life. The only thing worse would be a scumbag who is too lacy to work and therefore exploits OUR (as in EVERYBODY) natural resouorces for their own, selfish lazy existance! Sorry if that is offensive but this is a subject that really gets under my skin. The common excuse is that it is for the kids since they can't take care of themselves. Well my friend what about the fish, someone needs to look out for them too.

[David Lee]

I will never forget one lady came up with a half-gallon of the cheap-o vodka, a carton of cigarettes and dogfood. When the total was more than she had she decided to put back the dogfood and told me "I guess he can go one more day without food"!

I hope that Pooch gave her a nice , hard bite on the --- !!

People . Can't live with 'em , can't bury their bodies under the Lemon tree . Oh , well ......

David

PS - to all who have kept this thread civil .... I thank you .

[WinterrunRon]

Grumpy II,

Where is Grumpy I? Is this your second boat? Just curioius.

I understand and appreciate your point of view, as I do everyones. But, as David points out, where do you suggest the line be drawn with respect to acceptable excuses or circumstances for breaking our laws?

BTW, I believe it's illegal to live in a cardboard box along side the feather river, and it doesn't matter if you are, or are not, engaged in the illegal snagging salmon.

I'm done with this thread as I have nothing more to say. I'm going fishing. And if I see poaching taking place, it's getting reported!

[slipjoint]

Well my friend what about the fish, someone needs to look out for them too.
************************************************

thats the difference between me & you - i look after the children first - then the fish - the world needs people like you - the world needs more people like me - cheer's - see-ya - by by - :arrow:

[slipjoint]

along with motorcycles boats have been a passion for many years - lots of larger boats - 28 foot 10 foot beam - was about the biggest we had a float house in idaho for many years - the house was setting on 40 foot of water - 35' wide 50 foot long - chained to a dock - -grumpy I was also a Boston Whaler -

[Eyecatch Tinytrout]

...one lady came up with a half-gallon of the cheap-o vodka, a carton of cigarettes and dogfood. When the total was more than she had she decided to put back the dogfood and told me "I guess he can go one more day without food"!...I put poachers as the lowest form of life.

That's a horrible story. Cruelty to your own dog is lower than low. Regarding the poachers, they are thieves. I hate thieves. Anyone who takes something that does not belong to them is a total jerk. Not to mention the inhumane methods they use.

[dtp916]

...one lady came up with a half-gallon of the cheap-o vodka, a carton of cigarettes and dogfood. When the total was more than she had she decided to put back the dogfood and told me "I guess he can go one more day without food"!...I put poachers as the lowest form of life.

That's a horrible story. Cruelty to your own dog is lower than low. Regarding the poachers, they are thieves. I hate thieves. Anyone who takes something that does not belong to them is a total jerk. Not to mention the inhumane methods they use.

Wow. What kind of a dog owner would do that to their pet? If you can't make a good decision on feeding your dog instead of drinking and smoking, you should be shot. As for poachers, that's one of the main reasons I stay away from the A. I loose my temper and start yelling at people. :x

[jbird]

This thread really brought out the true colors of the people who participated. I am very impressed with the integrity and morality of this community. I allready knew but this shined a new light on it. :)

David lee, Your post, as follows


Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:21 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

slipjoint wrote:

i'll shut up now & go away - getting a littly chilly out some of you might want to walk over & turn the heater up - other folks migh have to put another log on the fire but they won't be reading this rant will they - t


Wake up a little cranky today , T ???

The way I see it .... if it's OK to break the law and take game out-of-season , poach , etc. .... then it's OK to sell dope , break into houses , strong-arm purses from old ladies ...... garbage like that .

I really believe that if someone can't afford to raise a family , perhaps birth-control is in order , not using kids as an excuse to snag Salmon , jacklight Deer , etc. . If what I've said is un-PC .... so be it .

I have less than a high-school education , no college , and no family wealth . What I do have is the ability to follow the rules and work my ass off for 10.00 bucks an hour . Well-heeled I ain't , but I don't expect the LAW to make exceptions for my situation . If I can follow the rules , then so can everyone .

I hope you don't take this as me being combative .... I've no wish to make any enemies - it's just my point of view . I think too many in this world make excuses for doing things they know are wrong . I don't make the rules , I don't much care for them most of the time , but I'd rather struggle w/ little $$$ then wind-up a convict .

I sleep well and have no problem looking in the mirror in the morning .

David


Was absolutely brilliant. You have a simple, natural way of sharing your heart and I agree with you 100000%..Bravo my friend!
I also apreciate slipjoints heart for kids and family. Nothing is more important on this earth. But O.K.ing snagging salmon to feed your family is just wrong. Why dont they go hold up a convenience store to feed their family. The comparison is apples to apples, is it not? Theyre both illegal, highly immoral and in my oppinion the snagging is worse because of the sensless death of a defensless creature.

If you dont mind I have a funny/sad poaching story.

I hiked down to fish one of my favorite holes a few years ago during fly only season. I was a little suprised to see 5 mexicans down there bait fishing. In the few words I could translate, I kindly informed one of them that it was illegal. Just about then, one of his amigos realized there were big spwning kings in the shallows just upstream. He yelled "Aribaaaaa!!" or something like that, and dropped his rod and ran into the river in his jeans...it was like 45 degrees that morning. he and his buddies started chasing the salmon around (fully clothed..as in, no waders) and it was really very entertaining. I was actually laughing...until one of them popped out of the water after doing a full bellyflop. with a large salmon by the gills. :shock: He quickly ran to the blackberry bushes, threw it in and ran back to the river, passing his amigo who was on his way to the blackberries with TWO large salmon. Now there are 5 mexicans in a frenzy in the riffle catching salmon by hand. I immediately hunkered into the forest and made some phone calls. Later that day, I was releaved when the officer called me back to tell me they cited not 5 mexicans, but 10!!! They mustve called the rest of their family to join the festivities before the fuzz showed up!

Jay

[Darian]

I was hoping to stay out of this thread but I can no longer stand all of the self righteous indignation posted on this thread.... I have no love of poachers but can't for the life of me see what brought about the venom posted by a few of you who I thought were considerate/thinking human beings....

I'm really disappointed in this whole line of BS.... :x :x :x

[SteelieD]

Tom, Yes the world does need more like you. I am sincere in saying what you do for the kids is very, very good.

That said, I'm with Ron. Illegal is illegal. Doesn't matter if it's poachin' fish for sustenance or robbing a bank. It is wrong. How would you feel if one of the children, who you are trying to show a better life, got caught robbing a bank? Not too good I'd think. You can't put 'levels' on right and wrong. Poaching fish is illegal and that makes it wrong.

Lets go fish! Legally of course... :wink:

[WinterrunRon]

Darian,

I think you were right on with your comment about this board having considerate/thinking human beings and off the mark with respect to the big words.

But, in describing the personal attributes of the members, I’d put money that law abiding would be widespread (with the exception of Jeff Putnam, who I caught fishing with a barb on his fly, by accident, of course). Saved you big money the other day, Jeff. That ticket is $300+. If you feel so inclined, you can reward me for watching your back by stashing me in a duffle bag on your Dean River trip this year! I don’t take up much room… really!

Now Darian, I’m sorry this thread has disappointed you to the point at which you couldn't resist the temptation to chime in. May I be so bold as to suggest a higher level of self control, my friend... self-control. It's part of what separates the law breakers from the law abiders. I seen no venom injected by anyone here. Friendliest, most helpful, considerate, open-minded board on the planet where everyone's views, including yours and mine, seem to have value and are encouraged to be expressed! I’m really surprised by your post, Are you having an off day? I’ll bet you didn’t go fishing, did you?

Jbird, love the story. Fuzz? Fuzz? How old are you, mister?

Ron

[slipjoint]

hi j-bird - i agree for the most part with what you said - along with engraving i have built custom guns for 40 years - and am a retired member of the Knife Makers Guild - i have killed just about everything in N America - i quit killing 20 years ago - i would carry a spyder outside now & release it - i also don't dislike folks for hunting & fishing - this board is 99% catch & release i would guess - but i would also guess the folks who buy their tackle at wally world kill & eat their fish - many catch the fish get home & toss them in the garbage can - is this wrong Hell Yes! - over all i think the hunting & fishing public has come a long way in protecting our wild life - in many places around the US - wild life is over protected - deer population gone crazy - just like people on this earth - over populated - but where i disagree with some of you guy's is - if my family was hungray i would do anything to feed then - if a job wasn't in the cards for whatever reason i would poach - rob a 7/11 - what ever it took - many of you would also do the same - see ya all later -

slipjoint,
I understand that anyone would do what it takes to take care of their family. I also commend you on taking care of kids that would otherwise be lost to society. I don't think breaking any laws is ever justified there are other programs that we all pay for to help alleviate those problems. Unfortunately there are a lot of useless humans abusing those services as well. You sound like a great person and you're right the world does need more people to take care of all the creatures that can't defend themselves either wildlife or kids. Let's just hope none of us ever get in such dire straights that we can't take care of our families the right way. I would just hope that if someone does resort to poaching or stealing that when they pull their lives together they do some thing in return to better society. Unfortunately I think those types are few and far between and it's the ones who see law breaking as an easy way out that should not be tolerated.
Cheers

[JerryInLodi]

I catch lots and lots of fish, yet if I were to figure out the cost per pound it would be well in excess of what I could buy fish or beef for in a supermarket.

Fishing is not a subsistance activity even with powerbait!

[Nip Hadlock]

"Why can't we all just fish along?" Rodney KingSalmon

[slipjoint]

"Why can't we all just fish along?" Rodney KingSalmon
i think i'll take up fly fishing - :P appears to be a nice sport :D

[Eyecatch Tinytrout]

...Now Darian, I’m sorry this thread has disappointed you to the point at which you couldn't resist the temptation to chime in. May I be so bold as to suggest a higher level of self control, my friend... self-control. It's part of what separates the law breakers from the law abiders. I seen no venom injected by anyone here. Friendliest, most helpful, considerate, open-minded board on the planet where everyone's views, including yours and mine, seem to have value and are encouraged to be expressed! I’m really surprised by your post, Are you having an off day? I’ll bet you didn’t go fishing, did you?...

Ron

I think I'm hip to Darian's disappointment here. I, for one, do hate poachers (wont back down there) but I just now realized that I've been subconciously lumping them all together, and maybe that's unfair. Consider:

A cheap snagging rig might be a meal ticket for some junkie sap who lives in his van. Is he in the wrong? Yes, but is that the same thing as, say, the shark finning 'industry,' which is really harming the populations and is absolutely beyond cruel due to their methods?

Is a family of mexican dudes grabbing salmon out of a shallow pool the same as organized, specialized, camo-wearing yahoos killing bear cubs with a hammer? (I wanted to throw up after I saw that footage).

Maybe there's a little wiggle room in there somewhere?

On the other hand, I read an article once about gorilla poachers. These bastards stalk and kill the gorillas, cut off their hands and heads and sell them to stupid tourists and stuff like that. These are intelligent, social, endangered animals (the gorillas, not the poachers) that need protection. But when asked why they do it, every poacher to a man said that it's a way for him to make money and feed his family. In that case, I'd say there's just no excuse for destroying those amazing animals. Wrong is wrong no matter what your reasons are.

Sorry this line of reasoning is not very articulate, thinking out loud, so-to-speak.